Spoilers Su'kal and Kelpien future

[PatrickGood]

If, on our Earth, a child unknowingly killed a Billion people, would we send him back to his home nation? Or would we kill him, his family, possibly even his nation, to avoid any possibility of it happening again, or for many humans, simply as revenge. WWPD What would Putin do?
Su'Kal will be assassinated, and and multiple species will wage a genocide against the Kelpiens unless the Discovery crew can keep the cause of the Burn absolutely secret. No logs, no reports, no stories back at the StarFleet HQ Bar and Grill.

 

[Timo]

"We" aren't exactly slaughtering Chinamen for their perceived role in unleashing the current pandemic. Shit happens; national antipathies are already basically maxed out, and nothing is likely to take us over the brink if and when it hasn't already.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Yistaan]

I don't think Su'Kaul will be assassinated for the fact that anyone villains after him will more likely want to understand how his powers work and utilize them as weapons. I agree that once anyone is able to recreate his powers at will, he's outlived his usefulness and the more ruthless members of the Star Trek universe will just dispose of him.

Another thought is if the Borg are still at large in the 32nd century. They incorporate the abilities and biological distinctiveness of those they assimilate, and then change the DNA of all Borg to fit (this aspect has basically been forgotten in Borg lore in favor of nanoprobes and emphasis on tech implants, but in Best of Both Worlds Dr. Crusher outright says that Picard's DNA is being rewritten while he's Locutus).

If the Borg assimilated Su'Kaul, the entire collective will have the power to cause new Burns whenever and wherever they want. Any planet that houses Su'Kaul, including Kaminar, is in grave danger if the Borg are at large and learn of his abilities and location.

 

[PatrickGood]

"We" aren't exactly slaughtering Chinamen for their perceived role in unleashing the current pandemic. Shit happens; national antipathies are already basically maxed out, and nothing is likely to take us over the brink if and when it hasn't already.

Timo Saloniemi

By "We" I mean humanity, and some humans are slaughtering chinamen (and chinawomen). Humans who do things I am opposed to are still Human.
Going back to fiction and hypotheticals, If I were in the Prime universe, I would want Su'Kal humanely euthanised, and his family checked for a similar disability. Preventing Borg from assimilating the trait just adds urgency.
And on the day Su'Kall realizes what he has done, he may even welcome this.

 

[Yistaan]

If I were in the Prime universe, I would want Su'Kal humanely euthanised, and his family checked for a similar disability. Preventing Borg from assimilating the trait just adds urgency.
And on the day Su'Kall realizes what he has done, he may even welcome this.

What? Killing Su'Kaul when he's not actively causing Burns or using his powers for evil goes against practically every Starfleet and Federation law there is, not to mention what the entire Star Trek franchise is about.

Su'Kaul was a kid when the Burn happened. He didn't know his completely understandable reaction at seeing his mother's death would kill millions. It's not his fault. Trying to drive Su'Kaul to welcome euthanasia for something he wasn't consciously responsible for would be no different than trying to drive Picard to suicide over Locutus' massacre at Wolf 359.

Killing Su'kaul to prevent his assimilation is no different than, say, Icheb's parents sacrificing him to prevent the assimilation of their homeworld in Voyager. Janeway, who fought for Federation principles, was horrified, and I think Vance would be horrified at the suggestion that Su'kaul be killed.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

"We" aren't exactly slaughtering Chinamen for their perceived role in unleashing the current pandemic. Shit happens; national antipathies are already basically maxed out, and nothing is likely to take us over the brink if and when it hasn't already.

Timo Saloniemi

Chinamen? Are you from the 1950's or something?
You do know that you can call people from china, Chinese, right? Might be better than using an ethnic slur rooted in colonialism.

 

[The Wormhole]

What the fucking hell is this thread?

 

[fireproof78]

What the fucking hell is this thread?

The arguments that strain credulity thread.

 

[cooleddie74]

 

[BillJ]

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[1001001]

Chinamen?

Good Lord...

 

[Mudd]

No logs, no reports, no stories back at the StarFleet HQ Bar and Grill.

They can do this. Saw you not the last episode of Season Two?

 

[cooleddie74]

They told stories. Lots of them. Starfleet in 3189 isn't completely cut off from the rest of the galaxy nor are its members living in a vacuum where stories and logs can't be shared or officially recorded and then listened to.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

"We" aren't exactly slaughtering Chinamen for their perceived role in unleashing the current pandemic. Shit happens; national antipathies are already basically maxed out, and nothing is likely to take us over the brink if and when it hasn't already.

Infraction for using a racial slur. Comments to PM.

By "We" I mean humanity, and some humans are slaughtering chinamen (and chinawomen). Humans who do things I am opposed to are still Human.
Going back to fiction and hypotheticals, If I were in the Prime universe, I would want Su'Kal humanely euthanised, and his family checked for a similar disability. Preventing Borg from assimilating the trait just adds urgency.
And on the day Su'Kall realizes what he has done, he may even welcome this.

You avoided an infraction here since you were using the language of the previous post and immediately realized your mistake and asked us to delete your post. I can't do that since it would require deleting several posts in the thread, and that's not our typical policy. Please be mindful of what you're saying in the future, though.

Everyone else, this has been dealt with, so let's please return to topic.

 

[PatrickGood]

Great Post! Thanks especially for editing out the first bit of my post. Lots of stuff to cover.
First, Roddenberry, Vance , and most of Starfleet would agree with you. Section 31, Evil Admirals without brain parasites, Empress Georgiou, Romulans, and most other species Starfleet have gone to war with, will agree with me.
Second, I agree that Sa'Kul is not evil and should not be executed. Euthanasia is supposed to be a medical treatment, not a punishment. When others discover his role in the burn, some will blame him, a much smaller percentage of the entire galaxy will seek vengeance. When he discovers his role in the Burn he will feel guilty. I feel guilty about the first part of my second post. No driving necessary. Picard did feel responsible for Locutus, and probably thought about suicide.
Third, Icheb's parents did the right thing to save their world given their technology. With superior Federation technology, Admiral Janeway used a more ethical, self-sacrificing variant of the same plan.
Finally, Vance and Saru are smart enough to know what will happen. They might fake Su'Kal's death and arrange either Witness Protection or Protective Custody with the TOS CharlieX aliens, or another benign all-powerful race.
Once again, thanks for your participation. I reported my second post to the moderator, so the post you quoted and others might get deleted, possibly the entire thread.

 

[Yistaan]

First, Roddenberry, Vance , and most of Starfleet would agree with you. Section 31, Evil Admirals without brain parasites, Empress Georgiou, Romulans, and most other species Starfleet have gone to war with, will agree with me.

All those villains you mention in the 2nd sentence would likely not kill Su'Kaul because they would gain far more advantage in weaponizing his abilities than in killing him and never finding out how they work. The villains you mention are more interested in pursuing power than vengeance for vengeance's sake. Even the Klingons, who view vengeance as a sacred rite or whatever, wouldn't find any honor in killing Su'Kaul because he had absolutely no idea what he was doing when the Burn happened.

Besides, is killing Su'Kaul going to bring back the Burn casualties? No! If people really want to undo the Burn and resurrect/prevent the Burn casualties, they'll have to break the ban on time travel. In which case, Admiral Vance and the other authorities who enforce the time travel ban will be the target of grieving victims' vengeance, not Su'Kaul, and once they kill Vance and the other enforcers of the time travel ban, they'll go back in time and prevent the Burn/kidnap the casualties and save them by taking them into the future, etc.

 

[cultcross]

They can do this. Saw you not the last episode of Season Two?

No.

And neither did you.

 

[Awesome Possum]

If an actual child accidently killed a billion people because of some condition they were born with, realistically they would be quarantined and researched so they could prevent it from happening again. I highly doubt any country that isn't a brutal dictatorship would just execute the child and even they would likely try to avoid it in order to keep them from reacting in a way that triggered another event that killed so many. I highly doubt the Federation would even consider this.

 

[The Wormhole]

Besides, as long as Su'kal never goes back into that nebula, he shouldn't be capable of triggering another Burn.

 

[Yistaan]

Besides, as long as Su'kal never goes back into that nebula, he shouldn't be capable of triggering another Burn.

I think it's just anywhere with a lot of dilithium right, not just that Nebula? So if the Klingons locked Su'Kaul up in the dilithium mines of Rura Penthe, he can cause new Burns.