Spoilers Suicide Squad - Grading & Discussion

[theenglish]

Again: If you said "I like this specific comic book movie for being dumb," I would have no objection. But you essentially said "All comic book movies should be dumb," and that is insulting to a great many creators and fans. And if you don't care that you're insulting whole categories of people, that just makes it worse.

Going easy on the person, all that was needed was an IMO.

And regarding Life of Pi, they created a realistic tiger! Avengers was a great movie with great effects but I always love when effects artists make the real world insertions seamless and natural. Life of Pi deserved that award.

 

[Tosk]

Those are your words, not mine.

Then I apologize for missing the point you were trying to make. What was it?

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

They're all Marvel movies. The Avengers-adjacent films are Marvel movies made by Marvel Studios. The X-Men and Fantastic Four films are Marvel movies made by 20th Century Fox. The Spider-Man films are Marvel movies made by Sony/Columbia Pictures. Ang Lee's Hulk was a Marvel movie made by Universal. Howard the Duck was a Marvel movie made by Lucasfilm. And so on.

Yup, they're all Marvel movies!

 

[LJones41]

It's interesting that I have yet to encounter someone who has brought up the subject of convict labor in this film.

 

[Morpheus 02]

It's interesting that I have yet to encounter someone who has brought up the subject of convict labor in this film.

I thought it was "work release" program... I mean going to the bar in the middle of a mission is clearly being on "furlough", right?

 

[LJones41]

I thought it was "work release" program... I mean going to the bar in the middle of a mission is clearly being on "furlough", right?

It's convict labor. I didn't realize that you found the topic funny. My mistake.

 

[kirk55555]

Well, if by forced labor you mean "letting criminals do things in exchange for benefits" (and in the comics at least time getting some off their sentence with every job), I don't see the issue. All of them were given a choice from what I remember. Rot in their cells or do jobs and maybe get something from it. Plus, even ignoring that, outside of June Moon who was a decent person in a bad situation all of the Suicide Squad were killers, either assassin's or psychotics. So, personally, my sympathy for them wouldn't be too high even if they were getting nothing out of the arrangement.

 

[Sci]

Well, if by forced labor you mean "letting criminals do things in exchange for benefits" (and in the comics at least time getting some off their sentence with every job), I don't see the issue. All of them were given a choice from what I remember. Rot in their cells or do jobs and maybe get something from it. Plus, even ignoring that, outside of June Moon who was a decent person in a bad situation all of the Suicide Squad were killers, either assassin's or psychotics. So, personally, my sympathy for them wouldn't be too high even if they were getting nothing out of the arrangement.

No, this was definitely forced labor. None of the prisoners were actually given a choice. They were given rewards for compliance and punishments for non-compliance, but they weren't actually allowed to turn the job down. Hence Diablo being present in spite of his never wanting to ever use his powers again.

 

[crookeddy]

The thing is, the ethics of making the convicts do this is one of the few "deep" aspects of the movie. Is Waller a hero or a villain? The movie did not answer the question, but it actually leaned toward villain. It did not glorify forced convict labor.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Nope. Waller came out as a full-blown villain, perhaps the biggest in the movie, when she killed her own people to keep them quiet.

 

[Noname Given]

No, this was definitely forced labor. None of the prisoners were actually given a choice. They were given rewards for compliance and punishments for non-compliance, but they weren't actually allowed to turn the job down. Hence Diablo being present in spite of his never wanting to ever use his powers again.

Nah - it was more a "Work Release" program.

 

[crookeddy]

Nope. Waller came out as a full-blown villain, perhaps the biggest in the movie, when she killed her own people to keep them quiet.

And yet Bruce Wayne made a deal with her in the after credits scene. Now that's a mischaracterization if I've ever seen one

 

[Grendelsbayne]

The entire concept of the Suicide Squad is about the worst possible thing you could do to prisoners short of medical experimentation. It's 'Escape from New York' times 1000 with no possibility of release.

That people don't talk about it as much, though, probably is because the movie just didn't focus on that aspect all that much. The assembly scenes are kind of brutal with Croc on that dolly, etc, but they're also over really fast and they're blunted by Deadshot's stupid negotiation scene. And most of the movie is generic action in which the SS repeatedly chooses their own path, defying both Flag and Waller and even leads to Flag defying Waller, too, which undercuts the sense of them as prisoners. It doesn't really go much further than Will Smith saying a few ominous lines and Slipknot losing his head (which doesn't really affect the audience because he's an asshole who comes out of nowhere and doesn't last five minutes).

 

[NinjaRaiden2005]

The entire concept of the Suicide Squad is about the worst possible thing you could do to prisoners short of medical experimentation. It's 'Escape from New York' times 1000 with no possibility of release.

That people don't talk about it as much, though, probably is because the movie just didn't focus on that aspect all that much. The assembly scenes are kind of brutal with Croc on that dolly, etc, but they're also over really fast and they're blunted by Deadshot's stupid negotiation scene. And most of the movie is generic action in which the SS repeatedly chooses their own path, defying both Flag and Waller and even leads to Flag defying Waller, too, which undercuts the sense of them as prisoners. It doesn't really go much further than Will Smith saying a few ominous lines and Slipknot losing his head (which doesn't really affect the audience because he's an asshole who comes out of nowhere and doesn't last five minutes).

David Ayer had a much darker story when he started work on the movie. I imagine the mistreatment of Harley by that one douchey guard would have had bigger consequences later in the story and probably a different ending entirely. Then WB came in and told them to make it more like Marvel with the jokes, famous songs playing in every scene, generic bad guys they can kill to keep it PG-13, and really just the notion of keeping it PG-13. It's no wonder why things are forgotten about, glossed over, never brought up again, or just outright changed by the end. Plus a 2 year old could figure out that Slipknot never had a chance. He was the only one to not get a cool intro! I really wish we could have seen Ayer's original vision for the movie. It's not like Fant4stic where the studio had to rush to save a movie because they realized far too late that they banked on a horrible director. I guess the upside to all this is that WB finally learned their lesson and left Wonder Woman alone and they'll probably do the same when he does Gotham City Sirens.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

And yet Bruce Wayne made a deal with her in the after credits scene. Now that's a mischaracterization if I've ever seen one

Did you miss the part where he warns her to shut the program down, or else he "and his friends" (meaning the JL) would do it for her?

 

[Sci]

David Ayer had a much darker story when he started work on the movie. I imagine the mistreatment of Harley by that one douchey guard would have had bigger consequences later in the story and probably a different ending entirely. Then WB came in and told them to make it more like Marvel with the jokes, famous songs playing in every scene, generic bad guys they can kill to keep it PG-13, and really just the notion of keeping it PG-13. It's no wonder why things are forgotten about, glossed over, never brought up again, or just outright changed by the end. Plus a 2 year old could figure out that Slipknot never had a chance. He was the only one to not get a cool intro! I really wish we could have seen Ayer's original vision for the movie. It's not like Fant4stic where the studio had to rush to save a movie because they realized far too late that they banked on a horrible director. I guess the upside to all this is that WB finally learned their lesson and left Wonder Woman alone and they'll probably do the same when he does Gotham City Sirens.

At least part of the problem was that Ayer was rushed into production before he even had the chance to develop an original vision. The poor guy was only given six weeks to write the script, and he spent the rest of production essentially trying to "find" the film in editing. There's a good first draft buried somewhere in there, but it's buried beneath the weight of both studio interference and of not having had enough time to develop a decent script even before studio interference began.

 

[Jax]

And yet Bruce Wayne made a deal with her in the after credits scene. Now that's a mischaracterization if I've ever seen one

Did you miss the part where he warns her to shut the program down, or else he "and his friends" (meaning the JL) would do it for her?

Clearly ignored it

 

[crookeddy]

Clearly ignored it

... "Made a deal"

 

[Jax]

warning her to shut the program down is not deal making, that's threatening someone...Very in character with Batman.

 

[Kai "the spy"]

I think @crookeddy is referring to the deal about exchanging information on the metahumans. But that still ignores the fact that Batman has made deals with shady characters, even supervillains, before, if it served a higher purpose. In his mind, finding these metahumans and forming a team of heroes is that higher purpose.