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Spoilers Suicide Squad - Grading & Discussion

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DigificWriter said:
@Christopher You're right, but when people use the phrase "Marvel movie", they're almost always referring to Marvel Studios, and the fact of the matter - from ALL viewpoints - is that Spider-Man Homecoming does not belong to Marvel Studios.
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Not from "ALL viewpoints," just from the bizarrely narrow, business-oriented viewpoint you're using. Obviously it's part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe in story terms. Tony Stark and Happy Hogan are in it. Captain America and the Avengers are heavily referenced in it. The storyline is a direct outgrowth of the aftermath of the Chitauri invasion in The Avengers, as well as a direct sequel to the Spider-Man portions of Captain America: Civil War. There are pictures of Abraham Erskine and Bruce Banner on the walls of Peter's school. Hell, the denouement even features a potentially life-changing event for Tony Stark. From a story standpoint, it is entirely of a piece with the MCU. That makes it a Marvel movie in the ways that matter to the audience, even though it's a Sony movie in the ways that matter to lawyers, accountants, and investors.
 
DigificWriter said:
@Christopher You're right, but when people use the phrase "Marvel movie", they're almost always referring to Marvel Studios, and the fact of the matter - from ALL viewpoints - is that Spider-Man Homecoming does not belong to Marvel Studios.
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Truly, people use "Marvel movie" to reference any MOVIE that has a MARVEL logo in front of it. Be it X-Men, Spider-Men, or Avengers. At least, the normal people I talk to.

Us nerds on message boards are the only ones that get all uptight about the differences in day to day conversation.

But there's almost no way anybody can say Homecoming isn't a Marvel movie in almost any sense of the definition, if they've actually seen it at least.
 
They're all Marvel movies. The Avengers-adjacent films are Marvel movies made by Marvel Studios. The X-Men and Fantastic Four films are Marvel movies made by 20th Century Fox. The Spider-Man films are Marvel movies made by Sony/Columbia Pictures. Ang Lee's Hulk was a Marvel movie made by Universal. Howard the Duck was a Marvel movie made by Lucasfilm. And so on.
 
Spider-Man: Homecoming is a Sony film that was made by Marvel Studios, using Marvel Studios creatives, set in the Marvel Studios-created Marvel Cinematic Universe, featuring Marvel Studios characters, and has a Marvel Studios logo in front of it.

If the essential claim made months ago was that the Marvel Studios brand was what earned its films good reviews, that their brand made them the recipient of unfair favoritism, then applying that brand to a Sony-owned film should not actually affect whether or not that film receives the same unfair favoritism as a result of the brand.

Bottom line: A few months ago, people were claiming that the only reason MCU films got good reviews and DCEU movies got bad reviews was that Marvel Studios got an unfair favoritism. This summer proved that a Marvel Studios-made and -branded film will get very good but not astonishing reviews for a very good but not astonishing film, and that a DCEU-branded film will get really wonderful reviews if it's a really wonderful film.
 
Also: Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2, a movie that is definitely 100% Marvel Studios made and owned, has an inferior score on Rotten Tomatoes to Wonder Woman -- 82% critical/89% audience to Wonder Woman's 92% critical/90% audience.
 
Howard the Duck was a Marvel movie made by Lucasfilm. And so on.
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You say movie, I say horrifying moving pictures projected on a screen that took precious time away from our short lives on this planet :hugegrin:
 
Please stay on topic, this isn't a thread about some kid's movie about spiders, this is a thread about the Academy Award Winning Picture Suicide Squad and you should treat it with the academic respect it deserves :p
 
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dodge said:
Please stay on topic, this isn't a thread about some kid's movie about spiders, this is a thread about the Academy Award Winning Picture Suicide Squad and you should treat it with the academic respect it deserves :p
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But of course, we must show proper respect for the Academy Award-winning motion picture Suicide Squad, just as we do to such Academy Award-winning films as Harry and the Hendersons, The Fly, Pearl Harbor, Hustle & Flow, Dirty Dancing, and Flashdance. ;)
 
King Daniel Beyond said:
Since we're all talking about it again: I love Suicide Squad. Shamelessly. It's big, dumb fun - exactly as comic book movies should be.
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"Should be?" Like they're only allowed to be one thing? "Comic book" is a medium, not a genre. It includes everything from Casper the Friendly Ghost and Jughead's Time Police to Watchmen and Maus. "Comic book movies" are just movies that are adapted from stories originally told in comics. Road to Perdition is a comic book movie. 30 Days of Night is a comic book movie. Surrogates is a comic book movie. Atomic Blonde is a comic book movie.

The relevant questions are, 1) Is it an objectively good movie regardless of what it's derived from, and 2) Does it effectively capture the spirit or substance of what it's derived from? I'd say Suicide Squad fails on both counts. If you personally happen to like its dumbness, that's fine -- but don't insult two entire media categories (comic books and the movies derived from them) by saying they're all supposed to be equally dumb.
 
Christopher said:
"Should be?" Like they're only allowed to be one thing? "Comic book" is a medium, not a genre. It includes everything from Casper the Friendly Ghost and Jughead's Time Police to Watchmen and Maus. "Comic book movies" are just movies that are adapted from stories originally told in comics. Road to Perdition is a comic book movie. 30 Days of Night is a comic book movie. Surrogates is a comic book movie. Atomic Blonde is a comic book movie.

The relevant questions are, 1) Is it an objectively good movie regardless of what it's derived from, and 2) Does it effectively capture the spirit or substance of what it's derived from? I'd say Suicide Squad fails on both counts. If you personally happen to like its dumbness, that's fine -- but don't insult two entire media categories (comic books and the movies derived from them) by saying they're all supposed to be equally dumb.
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The relevant questions are, 1) Do I like it? and 2) Do I care if you take my liking this movie as a slight on the entire comic book movie genre?
1) Yes
2) No
 
Again: If you said "I like this specific comic book movie for being dumb," I would have no objection. But you essentially said "All comic book movies should be dumb," and that is insulting to a great many creators and fans. And if you don't care that you're insulting whole categories of people, that just makes it worse.
 
I largely enjoyed Suicide Squad for what it was despite glaring issues. It was a shame they suffered from executive meddling like BvS to be their own knockoff of Guardians of Galaxy instead of doing its own thing. I wasn't a fan of how dark BvS was, but it made sense for Suicide Squad to be like that. I also don't really like the Joker as a character in general so I didn't appreciate him being shoehorned into the story to basically do f**kall in the main plot, to say nothing of Leto's douchebag behavior behind the scenes and let's say...divisive performance. I was probably most disappointed by Katana's negligible role after falling in love with the character on Arrow. How It Should Have Ended hit it out of the park with her.

Flagg: This is Katana. She's got my back. I wouldn't recommend getting killed by her. Her sword sucks the souls of those it kills.
Harley: Oooooh! That sounds exciting. Will we get to see that?!
Flagg: No.
Diablo: Then why'd you even bring it up?
Flagg: I don't know.

I can say that I love Margot Robbie's dedication to playing Harley and showing how the character should be portrayed. It's made me more excited to see what she and the rest of the cast do in Gotham City Sirens with David Ayer able to do his work without studio interference. As for who should have won an Academy Award I can't really say. Both Star Trek: Beyond and SS did amazing makeup work. In an age where facial capture has started becoming standard procedure I appreciate seeing continued work in practical makeup effects. Besides, we all know those Awards will never see our movies as being equal. My faith in that system was lost years ago when The Avengers lost in best VFX to freaking Life of Pi.
 
Sci said:
But of course, we must show proper respect for the Academy Award-winning motion picture Suicide Squad, just as we do to such Academy Award-winning films as Harry and the Hendersons, The Fly, Pearl Harbor, Hustle & Flow, Dirty Dancing, and Flashdance. ;)
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All of which are classic movies in their own right and deserved of the awards they've earned.
 
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