Spoilers Suicide Squad - Grading & Discussion

[Grendelsbayne]

Crossover rules, mate. It wasn't Flash or Batman's movie. I know we don't like it, but it's the same imposed rules we see in comics and other movies. Why do no Avengers help Tony in IM 3 when his house was blown up by terrorists? Why do no Avengers help Steve when they learned SHIELD was infiltrated by HYDRA and planning mass death with the hellicarriers in DC? Why does Superman never just pop over to Gotham to stop whatever multi-issue crisis Batman and his family are having? Story is not about them, so they weren't included.

With the old rules in Marvel Comics, you would at least get a shout out of what other heroes were doing when shit was going down. Mainly because 99% of all of Marvel's heroes were in NYC (Spider-Man, Daredevil, the Heroes for Hire, Fantastic Four, Avengers, Doctor Strange etc).

Like I said, it was only a minor annoyance. And to clarify that more, the annoyance is not that it happened but how it happened. In every other case, I've always considered the 'but where are x?' argument to be completely ridiculous. Especially so in the Marvel movies, which have always had very obvious reasons why other characters would not be available, or would not be appropriate to involve, or simply would not be allowed to be involved (as is the case in IM3, where the perfectly in character arrogant as hell Tony is trying to prove something to himself, and therefore doesn't tell anyone where he is or what he's found).

The problem in SS is just that they spend a good ten minutes of the minute actively showing these two completely unrelated heroes (who we know can travel very easily) dealing with problems that are very similar to what's happening in this movie, they give not the slightest hint of an idea that there might be something else out there taking up these two characters' time, they make the villains' plan so big and obvious that it has to be on the national news telling them exactly where to go, and then explicitly state this has been going on for days before the Squad shows up. They just took it too big to really be credible anymore, and including those cameos of Batman and the Flash catching metahumans just feels like they were practically begging the audience to ask 'hey, why aren't those guys around?'

I haven't seen it, but I saw a summary of the scene, and it sounds more like it's setting up a future conflict between Bruce and Waller over the Squad's existence -- she keeps it around, Batman tries to shut it down, and there's your plot for the sequel. Maybe the next movie will be Batman v Suicide Squad: Mid-Afternoon of Villainy.

I'm sure that was the intent, but it just felt kind of weird. I believe the exact quote was 'Shut it down or my friends and I will do it for you.' Something like that, anyway. It's just that, coming at the end of the first movie of a brand new series featuring mostly new characters and seeing the most established and respected character in the franchise pop in and say 'you're finished!' feels very much like the opposite of James Gunn's "The Guardians of the Galaxy Will Return".

 

[Mr. Adventure]

As far as the heroic interventions go maybe it would have worked better if it had come out before BvS. Bruce Wayne could be still gathering intelligence on metas and so on. We wouldn't have seen the Flash or Wondy yet.

 

[Christopher]

The thing with Mark Millar's statements is that one that are sensationally hyperbolic, and two a film with the Suicide Squad, is not something you as a parent should take small children to if that his concern.

Yes, and that's the problem, because where's the alternative? Where are the DC films he can take his children to? I certainly can't fault a parent for wishing that such films existed. Maybe if we'd gotten a Superman film that was suitable for family viewing, then it wouldn't be an issue for something like Suicide Squad to be darker, since that's inherent in the premise. But the problem is that the DCEU movies so far have only one tone, and there are no alternatives.

Unlike say Terminator 2 and Robocop 2, which were very adult in terms of content, both films were actually marketed to kids.

Which was insane. That was the result of the marketers not understanding what the films were about, and ignorantly falling back on the old, stereotyped assumption that all fantasy and SF was frivolous kid stuff. It's hardly something that should be held up as an example to follow. (See also the amazingly ill-conceived and fortunately cancelled line of Aliens toys that were in the works once.)

Just look at his resume; Kick Ass, Wanted, Kingsman, Civil War, Old Man Logan (with Hulk&She-Hulk incest and several mentally retarded children) etc.

Again, that shouldn't mean he doesn't have the right to express a desire for other types of work. A person is not defined solely by their profession. If someone who worked at Subway invited you out to a fine restaurant, would you reject that invitation as invalid on the grounds that someone who made fast food as a job was incapable of enjoying other types of food as a consumer? Of course not -- that would be preposterous. No human being is defined exclusively by their work. What people want as consumers -- or what they want for their children -- is not automatically limited by what they put out as producers. I'm sure there are plenty of people who work at Hostess or Nabisco, making candy and junk food for a living, but who then go home and make sure their kids get plenty of healthy fruits and vegetables. There is more to any human being than just their job.

 

[Commander Richard]

I saw Cara Delevigne in Paper Towns last night. I thought it was a pretty good movie and I liked her character.

Usually the racists are quick to come out of the woodwork and condemn any casting of a black actor in a traditionally white role.

And it's funny because every time I see him, he's in a full face mask. Could be anyone underneath.

Slipknot should have been in all the promo pictures.

I wonder if a lot of his scenes were cut. Felt like he had more of a presence in the promotional material than in the actual movie.

As for Harley and the Joker...

Spoiler

We were told that we wouldn't see Harley in her classic jester outfit but we got a nice little surprise anyway, and even better, it was a live action shot of the famous Alex Ross painting.

 

[Thestral]

Yes, and that's the problem, because where's the alternative? Where are the DC films he can take his children to?

How is that Suicide Squad's fault or a fair reason to downgrade it or criticize it?

 

[Jax]

I watched it opening night (Midnight) but I still couldn't put my experience into words so I will give it a try. Overall I liked the film but less so than BvS or Man of Steel (which I love). The opening bit showing how the team got pulled into Task Force X was a smart way to start and seeing Batman & Flash was a nice surprise but am still not sold on Flash having that electric around him all the time when he uses his powers.

While I liked Joker early on they clearly either cut too much or didn't write enough for Leto's version to warrant his involvement in this movie or to create an opinion of this DCEU Joker. It felt to me that Joker should of been heavily involved in the Harley origin at the start but they didn't show nowhere near enough especially when he is her patient at Arkham Asylum. Joker should NOT of been involved in the city sections of the movie at all though have him trying to track her down for sure but keep him away from the middle arc and have to just appear right at the end breaking her out to set up future involvement. Joker was not violent or crazy enough to warrant the pre hype and I feel sorry for Leto who was not given the chance to shine.

I really enjoyed Deadshot more than I thought and alongside Harley who was played superbly by Margot Robbie, were easily the standout characters with Weller a close 3rd. TBF all the characters had their moments to shine and were juggled around fairly well throughout the movie but no doubt elements were held back by cutting, poor editing and the lack of a R Rated certificate though in the UK it was a 15.

The two villains felt thrown in with no proper build up, back story or depth to the larger DCEU story. Marvel have slowly built there main villain Thanos and the infinity stones into the MCU but WB don't seem to care about setting up future events and could of used this movie to further that agenda which they largely cut out of BvS in the theatrical release but instead choose a random god esq villain who was as underwhelming as the CGI they used but I did enjoy the final battle from a pure action point.

It was funny in a few places but I don't have the same cravings as others for DC to copy n paste Marvel fluffy aspects and I like we have two different comic book universes doing things different. Same with the look of the film it WAS NOT too dark and it suited the theme and atmosphere in the DC universe which for me always has a more gritty nasty darker edge than Marvel. The editing however was an issue and some scenes were poorly put together the biggest one for me being the fact Boomerang left the bar but just reappeared with no explanation in the next scene. I don't believe for a second Ayer approved this version of the film and parts were decided for him and too many cooks made this soup good instead of great.

I think at the end of the day we got a good but not great movie and it will suffer an even more harsher drop than BvS and with no China Box Office its going to fall way short of WB's hopes I imagine and Wonder Woman is going to face the backlash from fans who might not be as eager to see the next DCEU movie.

Man of Steel = A-

Batman vs. Superman = B+

Suicide Squad = B

 

[Christopher]

seeing Batman & Flash was a nice surprise but am still not sold on Flash having that electric around him all the time when he uses his powers.

From what I saw in the JL trailer, it seems like the same sort of thing the TV show does, which is based on the way the comics depict his powers these days, always accompanied by "lightning" representing the Speed Force. It's just found a different way of depicting it, less body-hugging/internally generated and more of a wider environmental effect. And it makes sense that they'd try to give it a different look than the show uses.

 

[theenglish]

I'm remember seeing Robocop as a teenager. At that point in time it was the most violently graphic thing I'd ever seen. It horrified me. I saw Full Metal Jacket around the same time and the graphic nature to that movie was also a shock but that movie at least had a more legitimate purpose.

Don't get me wrong--I love Robocop and still think it is one of the best satires in the genre, as well as being disturbingly prescient.

 

[Jax]

From what I saw in the JL trailer, it seems like the same sort of thing the TV show does, which is based on the way the comics depict his powers these days, always accompanied by "lightning" representing the Speed Force. It's just found a different way of depicting it, less body-hugging/internally generated and more of a wider environmental effect. And it makes sense that they'd try to give it a different look than the show uses.

My only issue is it does look a little OTT and distracting in that style.

 

[JD]

I've seen a few reviews calling the movie sexist and mysoginist, but quite a few who I would expect to complain about that, haven't mentioned it. So are there really any noteworthy elements of either in the opinions of those of you who've seen it?

 

[dahj]

Where are the DC films he can take his children to?

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I've seen a few reviews calling the movie sexist and mysoginist, but quite a few who I would expect to complain about that, haven't mentioned it. So are there really any noteworthy elements of either in the opinions of those of you who've seen it?

The Joker treats Harley that way to be sure especially in a rather icky club scene. There's a couple of scenes where the prison guard toys with her advances (to get her way) before rejecting her with a literal shock but he's nasty to all the squad members. However, the Squad itself basically treats her as one of their own and Deadshot watches out for her (or keeps an eye on her if you want to be punny...) as you'd expect from a repentant bad dad.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

I've seen a few reviews calling the movie sexist and mysoginist, but quite a few who I would expect to complain about that, haven't mentioned it. So are there really any noteworthy elements of either in the opinions of those of you who've seen it?

Not to my knowledge. I suspect it's people who don't like these interpretations of Harley Quinn and Enchantress. This despite neither being OOC, used to advance a males story, and each respective woman having agency and arcs for their own stories.

Also keep in mind that both Katana and Amanda Waller were in the film. Most reviewers who decried the film as sexist forget to mention them and their own respective arcs and portrayal.


Don't believe the noise, mate.

 

[JD]

Well, it's seemed to me that the Joker/Harley relationship has always been borderline abusive, just due to the Joker being the Joker, so was expecting that to be part of the relationship here.
The new review from Tor.com's Emily Asher-Perrin talks a bit about the sexism and misogyny.

 

[lurok]

It's as problematic as a lot of mainstream movies, and a systemic issue that should be tackled at root.

 

[shapeshifter]

My biggest problem with SS, besides the never ending brain-numbing action sequences is the beginning. 1/3 of the film is spent filling in the characters backstory. That may be fine the first time but eventually owning it will require FF through all that crap once it is memorized.

Why not do proper origin films for each? I promise I wont accuse them of ripping off Marvel. Do it right or don't bother. Unless they don't believe the characters are strong enough to stand on their own? C-

Where was Superman?

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Well, it's seemed to me that the Joker/Harley relationship has always been borderline abusive, just due to the Joker being the Joker, so was expecting that to be part of the relationship here.
The new review from Tor.com's Emily Asher-Perrin talks a bit about the sexism and misogyny.

Hmmm, I didn't really get that Batman was trying to give Harley mouth-to-mouth since they were underwater. And he didn't put his arms on her throat it looked like a stun device.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

My biggest problem with SS, besides the never ending brain-numbing action sequences is the beginning. 1/3 of the film is spent filling in the characters backstory. That may be fine the first time but eventually owning it will require FF through all that crap once it is memorized.

Why not do proper origin films for each? I promise I wont accuse them of ripping off Marvel. Do it right or don't bother. Unless they don't believe the characters are strong enough to stand on their own? C-

Where was Superman?

Did each of the X-Men need solo origin films before coming together? Suicide Squad has always been a team book of 2nd and 3rd tier villains and anti-heroes. I doubt any of them could carry a movie solo.

 

[JD]

While a Harley Quinn or Deadshot movie could maybe work, I doubt anybody would see Killer Crop, Slipknot, Boomerang, Enchantress or El Diablo movies.

 

[lurok]

Arguably only Deadshot and HQ, and even then only with much better known and popular characters like Batman and Joker.

I think the mouth-to-mouth scene with HQ was also when he took her to Batmobile.