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Subjective POV: But more women seem to prefer DS9 than other Treks

Women are more intelligent, which is why they like DS9 more. ;)

Or I'd like to think so, but I have a sneaking suspicion VOY may have the most female-skewing fanbase. :(

if i claimed that men are more intelligent i'd be mobbed by members, and reprimanded by the forum-big brother because it's politically incorrect. you'll be left in peace because anybody knows it's satire.

I second that, you can be as racist and sexist as you like aslong as your not white and male. Not just here EVERYWHERE!
 
Women are more intelligent, which is why they like DS9 more. ;)

Or I'd like to think so, but I have a sneaking suspicion VOY may have the most female-skewing fanbase. :(
if i claimed that men are more intelligent i'd be mobbed by members, and reprimanded by the forum-big brother because it's politically incorrect. you'll be left in peace because anybody knows it's satire.

to the second part. i guess you are right here, and that's because they prefer the matter-of-fact 7 of 9 to the nervous wreck that kira was. strong character, my ass. why, anyway? because some plots said she had to beat up a male or two? were does this craving for a strong female character come from? i'm quite content that real life women are seldom psychos.

Nervous wreck? Psycho? How is Kira either of those things? If she has any issues, it's certainly understandable. She grew up during the Occupation, lost both her parents, and was a resistance fighter. I'm sure she was scarred by her experiences and hardened by her difficult life, and yes, I will concede she started off as very confrontational. But the fact that she was fiesty, strong and had a temper at times does not make her a nervous wreck or a psycho. And I have no problem w/her giving a good ass-whupping to another character who needed it, any more than I would if Sisko gave someone a smackdown. At least she wasn't a walking robot/dominatrix fantasy like 7 of 9!
 
At least she wasn't a walking robot/dominatrix fantasy like 7 of 9!

That's Mirror Kira. ;)

Anywho, Seven at least made up for her appearance by being a well-acted and well-written character.

Heh. I'll give the mirror Kira thing ... except for the robot part. :drool:
But seriously Kiras was well-written and well-acted as well. The problem with Seven was that when Jeri Ryan was brought on Voyager started to turn into the Seven of Nine show. And it may sound like I dislike Seven, but really I didn't. My ire was just raised when someone disparaged my beloved Kira. ;) Catsuits aside, Seven was interesting and well-acted but sometimes it was too much of a good thing, you know? She was overexposed, and I'm not talking about her body...
 
Nervous wreck? Psycho? How is Kira either of those things? If she has any issues, it's certainly understandable. She grew up during the Occupation, lost both her parents, and was a resistance fighter. I'm sure she was scarred by her experiences and hardened by her difficult life, and yes, I will concede she started off as very confrontational. But the fact that she was fiesty, strong and had a temper at times does not make her a nervous wreck or a psycho. And I have no problem w/her giving a good ass-whupping to another character who needed it, any more than I would if Sisko gave someone a smackdown. At least she wasn't a walking robot/dominatrix fantasy like 7 of 9!
7 had a troubled youth as well, though she probably enjoyed assimilating as much as kira killing. what troubles me is that all women in star trek are not only strong, resourceful, and smart, but also beautiful. what i missed are tellarite, pakled, and malon ladies. well, there are lots of lookalikes at walmart. voy at least risked to show a viidian woman, i think the female fans didn't like that.
 
It seems ironic, but whether Seven of Nine worked or not, her character might have still been criticized.


If Jeri failed in her performance, then everyone would have said Seven of Nine was a big mistake, was just for ratings, and really brought Voyager down.

But since she performed it so well, (nailed it) Seven became a sort of cult character, at least among trek.

I remember in "The "Gift" where her some of her implants were removed and she is shown in her first civilian clothes.

She seems to be striking this sexy pose as the camera zooms in on her, lol

Another thing?

Janeway was a female captain, but was originally surrounded almost entirely by a male crew at least before they were replaced and the Maquis joined.
 
Janeway was a female captain, but was originally surrounded almost entirely by a male crew at least before they were replaced and the Maquis joined.

The thing that bugged me about Janeway was that she always seemed like she had something to prove or compensate for.

Sure no Captain is the same, be that Kirk, Archer, Picard, Sisko, etc..... but Janeway's attitude didn't seem so much as confidence, but more like she always had to prove her pair were just as big as the rest of the boys..... to a fault.

Archer, Sisko, Picard and even Kirk would normally resort to combat only as a last resort and would usually talk a situation down to a compromise.

Janeway?

Besides the contradictions of heir loyalty to the Prime Directive, when she was stopped by an alien species for entering their territory or told to turn back, etc..... she'd give the diplomacy thing a go for about 20 seconds..... but even then it wasn't diplomacy.

The aliens would explain to her their situation and that they didn't want anybody crossing their territory. She'd tell them that they're going through regardless and toss them some sort of "deal"...... if the deal wasn't accepted, then it was "BATTLE STATIONS!"

Then the fighting would go for most of the episode and near the end when Voyager has had enough and they're about to be destroyed, they discover something that turns the tides in their favor and then hails the aliens..... tells them what they can do and then tells them to either let them pass through their territory, or else.

Or they'd eventually come to a compromise they can all agree on and everybody is happy.

Other times, she'd just think up the most insane plan possible, tell the crew what they're going to do and regardless of opposition, even from her 1st officer..... nothing changes, and they're to carry out her screwed up plan which usually ended up leaving them worse then when they started.

Or something like this would happen:

"Captain, we've just picked up a strange anomaly on the sensors and it's coming from that strange looking nebula over there."

"Hmmm..... well that will take us a year off our trip in the wrong direction, there are readings in that nebula that are unknown, but we're out here to explore after all..... fly us right into the centre of the nebula Mr. Paris."


And then they spend the rest of the episode trying to figure out how to get their ship back out of the Nebula before it's crushed, or eaten, or twisted into a pretzel...... even though a number of her crew warned her about the risks.

Normally Sisko, Picard or whoever would send a probe first and see what happened to the probe before sending the ship in..... but no...... Janeway figured she'll take the whole damn ship in to see what's going on first and then figure it all out as they go.

Now don't get me wrong, there are times she does quite well with diplomacy, where she handled other species quite well and made decent relations with other aliens with the Federation...... but anytime anybody put her in a tough position, even in the slightest..... she'd raise that eyebrow, scowl, put her hands on her hips and give the speech about how she doesn't tuck her tail between her legs and run and she's basically right there with her finger on the Red Alert button ready to do some damage to them for their insolence and show them who wears the pants in the relationship...... and then when she's got them cornered, she'll hail with that omnipotent attitude of "Do as I say or be destroyed."

And when the above didn't work out, when her ship is virtually destroyed and most of her crew is dead..... does she learn from her consequences?

No.... she'll go back in time and make sure the second time around goes the way she originally wanted.

Talk about women always being right :lol:
 
Yeah, DS9, IMO, had much better female characters than VOY... because DS9 had much better characters than VOY, period.

I often bring up a comparison of Kira and Janeway as an example of how to successfully write a strong female character (Kira) vs how to fail in writing a strong female character (Janeway). Kira is female, but that has never been her defining characteristics. She is a strong, complex, flawed character who is also female. Janeway doesn't really have any consistent defining characteristics other than "female captain". The writers were just so obsessed with the idea of her being a female captain that they forgot to really define and give depth to her character. You don't write male characters with "male captain" being their only defining characteristic, do you?

This article about the so-called "strong female characters" gets to the heart of the problem:

I think the major problem here is that women were clamoring for “strong female characters,” and male writers misunderstood. They thought the feminists meant [Strong Female] Characters. The feminists meant [Strong Characters], Female.
Kira is a [Strong Character], Female. The DS9 writers understood what writing a strong female character means - it's the same thing as writing a strong character in general: interesting, complex, flawed character with a compelling background, a character who can carry a story, who grows and develops. A character who would be just as compelling if she were male.

Janeway is a [Strong Female] Character. The whole purpose of her character is to be a woman who is strong and awesome and to show that a woman can be in command and that this is a good thing. But she's not a strong character, because she is so poorly defined and inconsistent, and doesn't develop at all. She does have flaws - those that the audience perceives - but they are a result of poor writing rather than a well thought out characterization.

Quoted for truth. Janeway as written in Season 1 was remarkable, and was my favorite Captain at that time. And then the writing went downhill and Janeway started feeling unrealistic & crazed, despite her impressive portrayal by the excellent Kate Mulgrew; on an acting and production level Voyager continued to shine. It all comes down to the writing though. Janeway started out fine but the writers lost their way with her and never recovered. Something similar happened with 7 of 9, who I'd say is the best written character on Voyager simply because she was given the attention the others lacked, and she wasn't around long enough for them to screw her up as much as the other characters; Kes was around even less time but they never developed her to the degree they did 7.

Jadzia, Kira, Ezri, even Winn & Ziyal are better written, more well rounded charcters than Janeway. When Kira or Dax took command I bought it. By the time Season 5 was rolling around I couldn't believe that anyone would be following Janeway. Not because she was a woman; but because she was a poorly written character. The writers of Voyager had to convince me not to like her. I loved that they had a new series with a woman Captain and I adored her every action in Season 1; her musings in 'The Cloud'; standing toe to toe with Chakotay & Paris in the pilot; her complex friendship with Tuvok, her reaction to the Vidiians and so much more. It was breathtaking...and then it all went to hell. DS9 was good but a bit rocky seasons 1-4 I'd say, but by the time Season 5 rolled around they were actually paying off on all kinds of stories and character arcs....and I'm getting way off course aren't I?

I just suspect that people that like strong characters are attracted to DS9 because that's where most of the strong characters in Trek reside; male & female both. They're sprinkled throughout the other Treks to be sure, but usually to the detriment of the other characters...IMO at least.
 
f I had to guess, I'd guess that the top Trek among women would be TNG, if for no other reason than that it's the highest rated of any of the Treks for men or women.

I would agree with this. TNG's also the most widely known as well as having the highest ratings. The women Trek fans I know, anyway, all rate this the best.
 
I use to debate why TNG would be more popular or deserved higher ratings, but now I understand- TNG had trekdom all to itself, and it was alone when aired and had to carry the franchise, which it did superbly.

TNG gave us some classic sci fi episodes, and made it more likely for more series to follow.

If that's the case, then perhaps that is what women had always wanted from the start -- good sci fi to watch.

I think the idea that Voyager was promoted as the network "flagship" (hence more popular than DS9 airing at the same time) is what seems to have started many debates about it.
 
i'd bet that if there were statistics which series people prefer born in 1990 and later, who didn't watch the shows on their first runs, they would prove a greater liking of enterprise, voy and ds9. watched a couple of tng episodes on syfy recently, the highly rated botw is remarkable for its cheesy fx and silly conclusion (cube blowing up because the borg fall asleep, i hope my bed is safe tonight), and there was another episode with ro laren and picard disobeying the order of some admiral to look away when the cardassians kill a bajoran terrorist, dear lord, did the early cardassians look pathetic.
 
Funny, but TNG reruns seems to be all the rage on mainstream television. I see on WGN, The Sci Fi network (SY FY) BBC and perhaps a few local channels--

I think Voyager has a regular time slot on Spike I believe, and even Enterprise is being shown-- DS9 has been off for a few years.


I find myself watching the reruns a bit lately even though I've criticized it somewhat in past.


I think nostalgia seems to be why it's getting more airplay now.

I think by today's comparison TNG seems more cheesy, naive and "safe", but it had some pretty classic sci fi episodes...
 
Out of all the Treks, TNG's simply the safest series for a network to pick up for syndicated reruns.

TOS is almost too old now, befitting on a network that airs reruns of Bewitched and All In The Family.

DS9 is far too serialized to make for decent rerun fodder.

VOY doesn't have the same pop culture recognition TNG does.

ENT... well, yeah.
 
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