STV:TFF - How did this POS get made?!?

[Tulin]

My partner and I are watching the films in order(his first time)and we just finished watching TFF.

God.

Not only is it as bad as I remembered, it's actually worse.

The overriding thing that struck me throughout the film(besides Bran Ferren's appalling effects that were SO bad we needed to use AS much ILM stock footage as they could)was how did this thing get made?!?

Now, I was THERE back in the '80's(ST fan since 1983)so I am aware of the whole "the studio gave Shatner a paltry amount of money so he could hang himself and thus fuck up his own reputation" as reported in the media of the day, but........as I am aware of things in the movie making business, nary a decision is made in the writing stage or on set or in post without front office knowing about it and producing copious notes and suggestions. I was telling my partner sometimes a production will get a note like, "Why is she wearing a red coat - make it blue" and stupid things like that - things that would seem ridiculous and petty.

At what point did nobody and I mean NOBODY, ANYWHERE in Paramount say, "You know what? This whole new age god thing has been done to death. It's silly, juvenile and hackneyed. And showing the face of god? You know, we'd hate him to look like the cowardly lion in a blue light, wouldn't we? Cuz that'd be kinda embarrassing".

I ask again, seriously, how did this piece of shit get made?

 

[Admiral Bear]

To paraphrase Michael Winner, Calm down, dear. It's only a movie.

I actually like the opening score with the rock climbing sequence up until Spock arrives in those silly anti-gravity boots, and the campfire scene is a nice little nod to the camaraderie the characters had in TOS.

And it has Nichelle Nichols doing her thang, baby!

 

[BoyNamedSue]

This movie is now officially 20 years old........And I vividly remember seeing this on opening day at age 11...........Life really IS short.......Now, I'm depressed.

I think, however, that TPTB were a little too confident in themselves after the overwhelming success of Star Trek IV. That happens to a lot of movie franchises.......One is an overwhelming success.......the next one is a travesty.

 

[Piper]

I've always liked TFF. Okay the SFX is ropey and from the moment they cross the great barrier the thing falls apart utterly but up to that point I think it's good fun, and certainly preferable to to the last couple of TNG movies.

But somehow I feel I'm in a minority!

 

[Good]

I was much the same. Everything was going great until Spock did a 180 in the jet boots and caught Shatner in mid-air. I remember getting a sour feeling in my teenage stomach that got steadily worse as the movie progressed. It didn't help that this was my first trek movie as a rabid fan. I watched TOS every day in syndication, read the novels and drew starships in class, and even joined "Starfleet." By the time Scotty banged his head on a pipe in his own starship, I was about to have a stroke. Aside from some of the "big three" interactions, nearly everything about the movie is just wrong. The Klingons are comic relief, the plot is held together with scotch tape, the brand new 1701-A is portrayed as a junkheap, the sets are obvious TNG redresses, the writing is bad and the effects are cringeworthy. About the only thing I like is the transporter effect, which we see one time.

 

[TheGodBen]

I heard that Will Shatner wouldn't come back for IV unless he was allowed to direct the next movie, and this was a story he wanted to tell since the days of TOS, so that is how TFF came about.

I watched it again just before Christmas and I too found it to be worse than I remembered. Aside from how terrible the story is and how badly directed it is, even the dialogue feels off somehow. The characters still talk like their characters, only it doesn't sound right. It is like listening to a song where the tempo has been sped up and the pitch has been adjusted; it's the same song but you can tell that it isn't quite right.

The only good thing about this movie is DeForest Kelly.

 

[cardinal biggles]

^I don't know that he ever threatened not to return for IV, but he and Nimoy had "favored nations" clauses in their movie contracts — if Shatner got more for the next movie, so did Nimoy. If Nimoy got to direct, Shatner would at least be offered the chance in a subsequent film. Presumably since Nimoy contributed to the story of TVH, Paramount's hands were somewhat tied in allowing Shat to direct and come up with the story for the fifth movie.

 

[CuttingEdge100]

It should be noted that there was a strike during the timeframe the movie was to be created. Writers weren't available to write a good plot, ILM was unable due to the strike to provide the special effects so they had to wing it as they went and get a much cheaper company to do the Special Effects.

Allegedly Shatner was reported to have said that TFF was partially the product of panic and that he was hoping that someone would know what to do along the way.

Not entirely sure about the last part...


CuttingEdge100

 

[guardian]

If you listen to the commentary for TFF, it's clear Shatner didn't have a clue about what was right or wrong about the movie. He just keeps mentioning that if the FX had been good or were fixed everything would be alright.

His acting is awful in the movie because he was directing himself.

Nimoy & Kelley almost save the movie * Luckinbill is good, but that's it.
Would have loved to have seen a stand-alone action movie with lots of location shoots and TOS style fights set between the trilogy and the TUC finale, but this movie just misses.

 

[TheGodBen]

I just love Shatner's assertion that the reason the movie bombed is because there was no rockmen breathing fire at the end. Because that would have fixed all the other problems with the movie, wouldn't it?

 

[BoyNamedSue]

Despite its faults, the scene in the observation lounge with Sybok, Kirk, Spock and McCoy was extremely well done and even moving.

I've often thought about the things Kirk discussed in that scene that I personally can relate to: the guilt and regret I carry with me........and how they make me the man that I am.......and how I should never wish to make it go away.......because they should NEVER be waved away with a magic wand........that scene alone saved the movie for me.

The man that played Sybok was obviously a very gifted actor.

 

[TheGodBen]

I take my previous statement back, DeForest Kelly was not the only good thing about this movie, the Director's Cut Ending was also very good.

 

[Maurice]

It should be noted that there was a strike during the timeframe the movie was to be created. Writers weren't available to write a good plot, ILM was unable due to the strike to provide the special effects so they had to wing it as they went and get a much cheaper company to do the Special Effects.

Not exactly... you're conflating multiple unrelated events.

The Writer's Guild strike started in March 1988 and affected the pre-production. What it impacted was the number of rewrites that could be done to polish the script during that time.

However, the script delay was mitigated slightly because Nimoy wasn't available when they wanted to start because he was directing "The Good Mother" (released Nov. 4, 1988), which pushed the production start to October 1988. Principle photography wrapped in December 1988. This left only about 5 months for post production in order to meet a June 9, 1989 release date, which Paramount wouldn't budge on.

ILM was NOT affected by the Writer's Guild strike, as that strike affects writers, and ILM is an visual effects house. But ILM was booked solid with Ghostbusters II and other projects, and the effects budget was tight, so the decision was made to go with Bran Ferren.

 

[GalaxyX]

Despite its faults, the scene in the observation lounge with Sybok, Kirk, Spock and McCoy was extremely well done and even moving.

I've often thought about the things Kirk discussed in that scene that I personally can relate to: the guilt and regret I carry with me........and how they make me the man that I am.......and how I should never wish to make it go away.......because they should NEVER be waved away with a magic wand........that scene alone saved the movie for me.

The man that played Sybok was obviously a very gifted actor.

I couldn't agree more. The movie had great potential. Some polishing of the script and better FX would have saved it IMO, but at least the end product is hopeful.

I'm a huge TNG fan, and yet I like this movie more than any of the TNG ones. Go figure.

 

[trevanian]

It should be noted that there was a strike during the timeframe the movie was to be created. Writers weren't available to write a good plot, ILM was unable due to the strike to provide the special effects so they had to wing it as they went and get a much cheaper company to do the Special Effects.

Not exactly... you're conflating multiple unrelated events.

The Writer's Guild strike started in March 1988 and affected the pre-production. What it impacted was the number of rewrites that could be done to polish the script during that time.

However, the script delay was mitigated slightly because Nimoy wasn't available when they wanted to start because he was directing "The Good Mother" (released Nov. 4, 1988), which pushed the production start to October 1988. Principle photography wrapped in December 1988. This left only about 5 months for post production in order to meet a June 9, 1989 release date, which Paramount wouldn't budge on.

ILM was NOT affected by the Writer's Guild strike, as that strike affects writers, and ILM is an visual effects house. But ILM was booked solid with Ghostbusters II and other projects, and the effects budget was tight, so the decision was made to go with Bran Ferren.

All true, but there was a way around a lot of this ... slip the release back to winter 89. They wouldn't have been so under the gun in post, they could have pulled the work from Ferren and his subcontractors and put it back on the west coast, probably at ILM, and maybe even reshot some other stuff.

Don't get me wrong; I absolutely LOVE st5, warts and all. I think 2 & 5 are the only ones I love (tmp is more like a weird love/hate thing), since I don't even like most of the others. But if they could have stayed out of the summer of 89, they'd've done better box office, even if they didn't do anything to improve the movie. But even mild improvements (like adding blur to the ship shots so it didn't look like Harryhausen in space) would have made a substantial difference in how it was received. Not enough to make up for all the bad trekkie karma Shat built up with his wonderful (to me anyway) SNL skit, but clearly, lotsa fans came to this one with their knives out ready to slash the screen.

 

[Borjis]

Despite its faults, the scene in the observation lounge with Sybok, Kirk, Spock and McCoy was extremely well done and even moving.

yeah that scene was great, especially McCoy & his father.


on another note ILM is a unionized facility. Strikes can occur (one almost did 2 or 3 years ago) but not if the writers strike. (separate union and all)

 

[Maurice]

on another note ILM is a unionized facility. Strikes can occur (one almost did 2 or 3 years ago) but not if the writers strike. (separate union and all)

I DID say that the strike in question was a Writer's Guide strike.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I've always liked TFF. Okay the SFX is ropey and from the moment they cross the great barrier the thing falls apart utterly but up to that point I think it's good fun, and certainly preferable to to the last couple of TNG movies.

But somehow I feel I'm in a minority!

Dont worry Piper, you are not alone. As much as they can hate on TFF, it is better than INSURRECTION and NEMESIS,and that is what this debate always comes down to...

Rob
Scorpio

 

[Amaris]

I love TFF. It's one of my favorites. It's far, far, far superior to NEM, which was the first Trek movie I got to see in a theater.


J.

 

[GalaxyX]

^^^ The only 2 Trek movies I've seen in the theater are: First Contact and Nemesis.

I walked out of First Contact thinking "ok that was not too bad"
I walked out of Nemesis with my eye twitching in shock