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Stuff you simply LOVED...
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Saw the movie again last night - two scenes really stood out for me this time.
First, when Kirk is pulling Pike up of the bench he's been strapped to on the Narada, a Romulan appears, and in the time it takes Kirk to process that he's seeing a Romulan, Pike has grabbed Kirk's phaser and shot him. Remember that Pike's most likely also coping with being paralysed from the waist down too. It's the look on Kirk's face afterwards - "Whoa, you are good." and Pike's stoic glance of, "This is what you need to be Captain, son." Loved it!
Second, Nero's death scene. Previously I've been too bothered by the set up of the scene to properly appreciate it.
In fact, this time of viewing (number three) I got to enjoy Nero throughout the movie, what I saw as weaknesses previously don't seem so bad any more - (I had a paragraph here about why they don't bother me, but I realised that it'll probably cause a ton of people to tell me why what he does doesn't work, and is against Trek science/real science. You know what, I don't care - I'm not a scientist, it's not why I watch/read Trek or any other science-fiction, so I'm not risking derailing this thread
Anyway, back to his death scene. As the Narada breaks up, he stops ranting, closes his eyes and smiles. He looks so peaceful. He's realised that he has done all he can, he has succeeded partly - he destroyed Vulcan - and now he can go to the after-life to be with his wife again. For the first time, that scene made me cry.
First, when Kirk is pulling Pike up of the bench he's been strapped to on the Narada, a Romulan appears, and in the time it takes Kirk to process that he's seeing a Romulan, Pike has grabbed Kirk's phaser and shot him. Remember that Pike's most likely also coping with being paralysed from the waist down too. It's the look on Kirk's face afterwards - "Whoa, you are good." and Pike's stoic glance of, "This is what you need to be Captain, son." Loved it!
Second, Nero's death scene. Previously I've been too bothered by the set up of the scene to properly appreciate it.
In fact, this time of viewing (number three) I got to enjoy Nero throughout the movie, what I saw as weaknesses previously don't seem so bad any more - (I had a paragraph here about why they don't bother me, but I realised that it'll probably cause a ton of people to tell me why what he does doesn't work, and is against Trek science/real science. You know what, I don't care - I'm not a scientist, it's not why I watch/read Trek or any other science-fiction, so I'm not risking derailing this thread
Anyway, back to his death scene. As the Narada breaks up, he stops ranting, closes his eyes and smiles. He looks so peaceful. He's realised that he has done all he can, he has succeeded partly - he destroyed Vulcan - and now he can go to the after-life to be with his wife again. For the first time, that scene made me cry.
I'm not sure...was Pike completely paralyzed at that point? Or did that happen from the strain he put on his damaged spine during the escape?
Don't know - he's being dragged back onto the Enterprise, and it looks like his legs don't work, but that might just be grogginess. The paralysis might actually be from the removal of the eel/crab/thingie back at Starfleet.
It doesn't really make much difference to the scene though - he's still recovering from having the thingie eating through his nervous system, so it's still really cool that his reflexes are that good.
Not sure. To me, it kinda looked like he at least had SOME mobility--though with spinal injuries you can seriously screw yourself up if you keep moving. I think adrenaline was making him do just that--and then by the time he got to sickbay it caught up with him and he'd done himself serious damage.
Obviously given the situation that was exactly what he needed to do, to save his life and those around him--but I kind of think, personally, that what really paralyzed him wasn't so much Nero as it was his own actions during the escape.
That says a lot about Pike, to me. He HAD to have known he risked doing very serious damage to himself but it was more important to do what had to be done than to selfishly worry about himself. I think it's the same mindset that made the prime Pike go in to save all those cadets despite the horrible things he knew it could do to him (and what it actually did).
Obviously given the situation that was exactly what he needed to do, to save his life and those around him--but I kind of think, personally, that what really paralyzed him wasn't so much Nero as it was his own actions during the escape.
That says a lot about Pike, to me. He HAD to have known he risked doing very serious damage to himself but it was more important to do what had to be done than to selfishly worry about himself. I think it's the same mindset that made the prime Pike go in to save all those cadets despite the horrible things he knew it could do to him (and what it actually did).
Good point. It would be very like Pike to know he shouldn't move to save his back, but to move anyway because action needs to be taken.
Pike is definitely one for putting himself in harm's way to save others without a second thought. What I also love about the character, is that he tends to have thought three moves ahead of everyone else.
When he first goes over to the Narada is a similar situation. He knows it's dangerous for him to go over, and there isn't any hope for negotiations, but that's not why he's going. He's walking into probable death to have an excuse to take a shuttle out over the drill to drop Kirk, Sulu and Olsen off so they can shut the drill down. The man's got serious guts.
I really hope there's more Pike in Trek XII.
Pike is definitely one for putting himself in harm's way to save others without a second thought. What I also love about the character, is that he tends to have thought three moves ahead of everyone else.
When he first goes over to the Narada is a similar situation. He knows it's dangerous for him to go over, and there isn't any hope for negotiations, but that's not why he's going. He's walking into probable death to have an excuse to take a shuttle out over the drill to drop Kirk, Sulu and Olsen off so they can shut the drill down. The man's got serious guts.
I really hope there's more Pike in Trek XII.
I think that perhaps he may have even deliberately not told Kirk and Spock that he suspected he had a spinal cord injury--because I'm sure even raw cadets are trained on how to handle that and he didn't want them to, as he saw it, waste time by trying to be delicate with him.
And yeah, I LOVE how intelligent he is!!!
And yeah, I LOVE how intelligent he is!!!
Off-topic: Oh, my, Jeri--we're a matching set! Check out our avatars! 
I can believe that!
And yeah, I LOVE how intelligent he is!!!
He's easily my second favourite character - and only in second place because of my total fangirl-squee adoration of the combination of Dr McCoy and Karl Urban
Yeah. And especially if he could tell it was affecting him from the waist down, and not higher up where it would interfere with breathing and such, that probably factored into taking that risk.
And Pike IS my favorite!
Yes, I just noticed that a little while ago -- 'tis the season!Off-topic: Oh, my, Jeri--we're a matching set! Check out our avatars!
Yeah. And especially if he could tell it was affecting him from the waist down, and not higher up where it would interfere with breathing and such, that probably factored into taking that risk.
And Pike IS my favorite!
I wish we could have had the scene in sick-bay when McCoy discovers how bad a state Pike is really in - that would be a fight worth watching
What, you mean McCoy chewing him out for taking a risk like that, and Pike defending it?
Yeah, that would've been a chance to have a classic Original Series moment!
Yeah, that would've been a chance to have a classic Original Series moment!
The creature releases a toxin that effects the brain, so it's not going to be a standard-issue spinal cord injury, where the problem is swelling.
Consequences of swelling is what everyone tries to avoid with the special handling we do. Like what happened to Natasha Richardson.
In fact, the bug's toxin may work to relax the tissue, if it's loosening up inhibitions.
Consequences of swelling is what everyone tries to avoid with the special handling we do. Like what happened to Natasha Richardson.
In fact, the bug's toxin may work to relax the tissue, if it's loosening up inhibitions.
What, you mean McCoy chewing him out for taking a risk like that, and Pike defending it?
Yeah, that would've been a chance to have a classic Original Series moment!
That's the one. McCoy being noisy and passionate, and Pike being calm and almost nonchalant about the risks. Then it could segue into Pike giving McCoy a lecture for bringing Kirk on board in the first place (*giggles* Pike could say "You're a doctor not a Captain, so I'll decide who's on board my ship!"
).Interesting thought. In that case it would be removing the thingie that would cause the most damage. Another interesting Pike/McCoy conversation - McCoy would say it's safer to leave it in, but there's no way Pike would agree to that!
*sigh* There's a whole other movie's worth of scenes I wish we could have seen.
I think that while that may have been one thing going on with Pike...we don't know what Nero did BEFORE that point as he tried to torture him. I wouldn't have been surprised if he snapped Pike's back to try and get him to talk.
(Given that we saw him with full use of his hands, and unaffected speech and respiration, this makes the most sense to me.)
GREAT thread. I would love to have seen the McCoy/Pike moments mentioned above. Those two would have been awesome together, I think.
On the original topic, my favorite moment of the entire film (on a par with the whole George Kirk/Kelvin sequence) is a very tiny, almost throwaway Sickbay/McCoy bit. It's when Spock is recording his log entry about the loss of Vulcan, and they pan over Sickbay as the Vulcans are being treated. In slow motion, McCoy walks up to a man and uses that diagnostic thing on him. Somehow, that strikes me as McCoy's "all grown up" moment. Karl Urban manages to make him look compassionate and firmly in charge at the same time. It's a small, throwaway moment, but I get goosebumps every time I see it.
On the original topic, my favorite moment of the entire film (on a par with the whole George Kirk/Kelvin sequence) is a very tiny, almost throwaway Sickbay/McCoy bit. It's when Spock is recording his log entry about the loss of Vulcan, and they pan over Sickbay as the Vulcans are being treated. In slow motion, McCoy walks up to a man and uses that diagnostic thing on him. Somehow, that strikes me as McCoy's "all grown up" moment. Karl Urban manages to make him look compassionate and firmly in charge at the same time. It's a small, throwaway moment, but I get goosebumps every time I see it.
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I loved that Chief Engineer Olson had the coolest redshirt death to date. WHOOOSH! "WOO-HOOOOOOOOOOOO!"
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