Win.
Strategic Designs' TOS Conny plans
- Thread starter Forbin
- Start date
Maybe not, but at least we know the sequence!
2-2-4-2-2-2-4-2-3-8-2
Besides, that episode was badly written.
Hmm here's a TMP thought: the deuterium tanks are in the primary hull near the top of the engineering shaft (say, outboard of the impulse engines.) That way, when you do an emergency saucer sep, you take your fusion reactor/impulse engine fuel with you.
That certainly makes good engineering sense. I'd think that the majority of the deuterium tanks would be in the engineering section, with some emergency tanks in the saucer for the reasons you mention. Some redundancy is always good. That's purely my take on it however.
I'd do it the other way around. Per gram, you'll probably get more energy from an m/am reaction than from fusion. So I'd put the big tank(s) by those thirsty impulse engines and have smaller tanks in the secondary hull to feed th m/am reactor.
True (possibly, I don't want to debate the fuel consumption of fictional engines
), but I like keeping the saucer the "habitation module," with little to no high energy or engineering equipment there. The exception is the impulse engines and some small fuel reserves, which are only there out of necessity. Everything else goes in the engineering hull. In my mind there has to be a reason why the ship is separated as it is. The saucer is where the majority of the crew spends it's time, with all of the crew quarters and most of the science labs there. The more dangerous stuff goes in the engineering hull. The deuterium supply isn't dangerous per se, but I don't like it taking up precious room in the crew section.
The problem with that approach is that it pretty much renders COMPLETELY useless the whole "primary hull as a lifeboat" option, doesn't it?
True (possibly, I don't want to debate the fuel consumption of fictional engines
Admittedly, without some form of FTL, this option isn't really all that desirable to start with, but it's better than being stuck in interstellar space with no chance of ever reaching a habitable planet because you have no fuel reserves available.
Not at all. I didn't say no fuel in the primary hull, I just meant the primary fuel supply is in the engineering hull. As I said, there would be an emergency supply in the primary hull.
Enough to let you travel across a solar system in a reasonable time say. A separated ship would be f'd in interstellar space anyway without warp drive. As long as there's enough fuel to let you travel between planets inside a solar system in a reasonable time, the lifeboat functionality is still there.
I'd say a (small) deuterium supply in the primary hull is essential for this very reason, maybe even a small antimatter pod in case you want to get somewhere in a hurry.
That's what I've been thinking, along with a step backwards and putting some slush tanks on either side of the impulse engines in the TOS version as well (same reason, fuel for the impulse engines following saucer sep).
Wasn't making a comment on the rightness or wrongness of either approach, just a matter of feasibility and fewer problems if something goes *pop* at the wrong time. High pressure approach might send a stray bolt through the hull of something breaks, whereas a deuterium slush leak stays contained inside the hull at least.
Well, it might "stay put" (temporarily) but I'm not sure that this is any less hazardous. Something that cold is gonna be every bit as hard to contain as something at high pressure... in fact, it's even more of a challenge, since "pressure vessel design" is entirely physics-based... while "cooling" involves thermal isolation, and an steady and constant transfer of heat out of the cooled fluid (which is, inevitably, going to be chilling the heck out of the ship interior, no matter how well insulated it is).
Then... imagine a phaser strike onto either sort of tank. Increase the temperature suddenly and you have an explosion (not combustion, mind you, but explosion nevertheless). A high-pressure tank will also "rupture" but you can, at least, control the direction in which the rupture will occur. (Most contemporary pressure vessels have a "rupture disk" installed someplace, facing in a "safe" direction, after all.)
I, personally, would prefer something which is designed as a pressure vessel, able to handled the "room temperature pressure" of the fluid inside, but also has a chilling system as a supplementary "safety feature."
Either method has hazards, so it's probably a matter of personal preference and which set of circumstances is worse if something goes wrong.
ST-One
Vice Admiral
The pylons would have to be attached to the engineering hull in very non-symmetrical fashion for this to work though (and we can't even blame the forced-perspective set on this
).
Whatcha do is start off with taking it as a given that where we see those conduits branch off is where the pylons attach to the hull, then work backwards from there.
Where the vertical shaft winds up from there is where it ends up. Then build the rest of the ship around it.
Where the vertical shaft winds up from there is where it ends up. Then build the rest of the ship around it.
True (possibly, I don't want to debate the fuel consumption of fictional engines
What is not fictional is what we know about M/AM and fusion reactions now. Per unit mass, M/AM reactions produce about 150 times more energy than the best fusion reaction. Therefore, all other factors being equal (a big caveat, i know), the fusion reactors would need 150 times as much fuel as the M/AM reactor to produce the same output.
And, if you allow for saucer sep, you must allow for some form of energy production beyond the batteries, and some form of fuel for that energy production.
And perhaps relate the tanks to those hull markings found on the top of the saucer in those areas.
I wouldn't debate the fact that m/am reactions are much more powerful. I'm agreeing that the primary hull needs some fuel, I just don't like putting it all there. To me it's something like the space shuttle; the shuttle has a large external tank that contains all the fuel for the main engines, and small tanks on board for the rcs thrusters. When it separates it still has enough fuel to maneuver, but it's obviously not going to be capable of the same thrust. In the same way (kind of), the Enterprise has it's main fuel tanks in the secondary hull, primarily for warp power generation, but also available for impulse. When it separates it has reserves in the primary hull, enough to get across a solar system say, but not enough to get to the next star system That would be too far away at sublight speeds, thus not worth bringing the fuel for.
So, the saucer is quite capable of functioning of a lifeboat like this - if there's enough fuel to provide years of life support from fusion reactors, or enough to get to the nearest viable outpost, why bring more?
To be honest I'm just trying to retcon some sort of function for it's form into the ship. Having swimming pools and crew quarters and bowling alleys crammed into every corner of the ship without regard to the overall function of the ship doesn't seem very realistic to me. I far prefer the notion that things like that are added once all the things that make it go have been put in place. Thus the primary hull is where the crew spends most of it's time working/relaxing and the secondary hull is where all the engineering equipment goes. So, following that logic, just as I wouldn't expect to see a bowling alley next to the shuttle bay, I wouldn't expect to see the main fuel tanks next to crew quarters. There's some crossover obviously, with the saucer having a small engineering section for the impulse engines and fusion reactors/batteries, and the secondary hull containing offices and machine room spaces.
I like to think of them as access hatches for impulse engine maintanance, but they'd be a good size for deuterium tanks for the saucer too.
The space shuttle is for low Earth orbit, is relatively unpowered during reentry, and only needs enough fuel on board to do what it does while in orbit. It's not a deep space vessel.
Isn't the saucer, when separated and acting as a lifeboat, in a somewhat similar position?
There's no real evidence either way; by the time of TNG the saucer section is a very capable starship in it's own right. Who knows if this is the case in the TOS time period?
My take on it is that it's not a deep space vessel when separated. It lacks a warp drive and deflector. I'd say that it is designed to work effectively in interplanetary space, not interstellar space. It's purely there to act as a lifeboat, abet a very heavily armed one (phasers and torpedos are both in the saucer section).
Although the saucer is the primary lifeboat, there needs to be provision for the event that the secondary hull needs to act as one instead. However, I agree with you that there doesn't need to be permanent crew quarters there - the cargo bays or other large areas can easily double as accommodation in an emergency.
However, one thing the secondary hull does have in abundance is WINDOWS – loads of them! Far more per square meter of hull that the saucer in fact. So unless there a lot of windowed corridors down there, it makes sense that there are some recreational facilities behind all those portholes in the secondary hull.