Spoilers Stranger Things - Season 3

[The Nth Doctor]

Yeah, I liked that Mike didn't say "yet" either.

I also thought of the possibility of him being asexual but I don't know enough about that community to really comment. If they do go in that direction, I hope they handle him correctly, especially since there's so little representation for asexuals (and even less so who are represented properly). The only example I can think of (at least among the shows I've watched) is Todd Chavez in Bojack Horseman and from what I've read, he has been handled right. There's also Yolanda Buenaventura but she's only a supporting character and largely defined by her relationship with Todd.

 

[JD]

Are you talking about just on TV? Because the reboot Archie comics have made Jughead asexual.

Did anyone else get the feeling of "we spent a lot of money on THAT set so we are gonna use it as much as possible"

I think it was pretty much always going to be a major focal point of season, so I didn't really see it that way.

 

[Awesome Possum]

The mall they filmed at was near where I used to live. I never went into it because I don't think there were too many stores at the time and I could get what I wanted elsewhere. But it was neat to see.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Are you talking about just on TV? Because the reboot Archie comics have made Jughead asexual.

No, I was thinking in general. I think I had heard Jughead was asexual now but that's good to know, especially for a character who is so well-known.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Cross-posting from the Marvel speculation thread. Variety reports that Millie Bobbi Brown is up for a role in Marvel's Eternals. Perhaps a gender-swapped Sprite?

https://www.newsarama.com/45959-is-millie-bobby-brown-cast-in-marvel-s-eternals.html

 

[Infern0]

Personally I hope they don't make the sexuality of underage minors a major plot point. That's just creepy.

Also if they do make any of them LGBT I doubt this show can do justice of representing what that was like in the 80s that was a terrible time for us and we were stigmatized and ignorantly shunned by out friends and family, whereas if stranger things tackled it it will probably be "aww it's ok" from everyone. No thanks.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Personally I hope they don't make the sexuality of underage minors a major plot point. That's just creepy.

Also if they do make any of them LGBT I doubt this show can do justice of representing what that was like in the 80s that was a terrible time for us and we were stigmatized and ignorantly shunned by out friends and family, whereas if stranger things tackled it it will probably be "aww it's ok" from everyone. No thanks.

Interesting POV.

 

[Mojochi]

Personally I hope they don't make the sexuality of underage minors a major plot point. That's just creepy.

Also if they do make any of them LGBT I doubt this show can do justice of representing what that was like in the 80s that was a terrible time for us and we were stigmatized and ignorantly shunned by out friends and family, whereas if stranger things tackled it it will probably be "aww it's ok" from everyone. No thanks.

I gotta say I'm in agreement with that. This is a period piece after all, & I'm just telling you, having lived through it at the exact same age as those kids. Nope & nope. That subject didn't fly in those days, least of all among teens. More than not, Will would've had issues within his friend group & probably would've had the shit beaten out of him by anyone who wasn't, & more than likely would've had serious problems at home too, especially with that asshat father

Did anyone else get the feeling of "we spent a lot of money on THAT set so we are gonna use it as much as possible"

Actually, I got the opposite impression. "Let's get us a big set that screams "80s" & that gives us something new to tell a story with", It WAS the vehicle for them to propel the season, kind of like a bigger version of the arcade in S2

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Along with Will there probably would be some problems with Lucas and Max in 1985 small town Indiana but I don't know if I really want to see them going down that rabbit hole myself.

Actually, I got the opposite impression. "Let's get us a big set that screams "80s" & that gives us something new to tell a story with", It WAS the vehicle for them to propel the season, kind of like a bigger version of the arcade in S2

The last episode was "The Battle of Starcourt", no less.

 

[Awesome Possum]

Personally I hope they don't make the sexuality of underage minors a major plot point. That's just creepy.

Also if they do make any of them LGBT I doubt this show can do justice of representing what that was like in the 80s that was a terrible time for us and we were stigmatized and ignorantly shunned by out friends and family, whereas if stranger things tackled it it will probably be "aww it's ok" from everyone. No thanks.

Why would him being gay be a major plot point? He could just be gay just like Mike is straight. There doesn't need to be a reason for it that affects the story. I'm not sure how that's creepy, gay people are born that way and were gay kids when they were kids. I highly doubt they'd film a sex scene because sex seems to be the only thing some people associate with gay people and always the go-to complaint about the possibility of any gay character for some reason.

I could see Will's sexuality being an issue for him to struggle with given the time period. But given how Steve reacts to Robin, it's highly likely that the kids would continue to be friends with him. They're pretty united at this point after all they've been through. Other people might, but he's already bullied for that whether he's gay or not.

 

[Reverend]

IIRC Joyce called him "sensitive" and he got bullied for it.

I may be misremembering, but I think there was an exchange between Joyce and Hopper in season 1 where Joyce mentioned that Will's father called him queer, then Hopper is like "is he?" and Joyce is like "I don't know!?"

Given Mike's line here, I think it's safe to say that whatever Will's deal is, it seems his friends at least have an idea what it's about, even if the parents don't.

Him being asexual could be a possibility too and it depends on the person, but I've know a few asexual people who use queer. I think it depends on the age group, younger people use it as an umbrella term for anyone who's LGBTQ+ because it's easier to say and doesn't exclude anyone.

Yeah, I gather there's some contention and possibly issues of gate-keeping around that term, so I didn't want to presume.

Not that I have any say in the matter, but I tend to think just using "queer" and a shorthand for anyone that isn't straight is just so much simpler because I swear every time I try to say or type "LGBTQ+" I either forget a letter or they've gone and added an extra one in there, purely to fuck with my increasing aged and easily addled brain no doubt!
That said, aside from issues of reductivism; given it's literal meaning ("strange", which is oddly appropriate for this show) I can see why some might take exception since it can be construed as "abnormal", which just opens a whole other can of semantic worms.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I generally avoid using "queer" because I have such a vague understanding of the complexities, subtleties, and connotations of the term and its history. If someone asks me to use it for them, then I'll use it, otherwise I don't want to risk offending because I know I don't know. But I am trying to learn.

I usually stick with LGBTQ+ although I understand that some find the "+" problematic because it's a hand wave for all the others. I know of at least asexual, intersexual, and non-binary but i know there are others but I forget about them (which is why i use "+").

 

[Mojochi]

Why would him being gay be a major plot point? He could just be gay just like Mike is straight. There doesn't need to be a reason for it that affects the story.

Yeah but Mike being straight IS a major plot point with Eleven, & Lucas being straight is a fairly sizable plot point with Max. Jonathan & Nancy's relationship... The show does a fair amount of shipping is my point, & while I don't know that I'd say that how they handle any of it is creepy, even though they're minors, I do think that if they are going to continue to bring up Robin or Will as being anything but straight, there's only 2 ways to handle that...

Not ship it, & have it just be a thing that was brought up but not explored, in which case it kind of does these characters a bit of injustice, in comparison, or ship it, & either have it be completely unrealistic to the time, by having there be a LGBTQ relationship story unfold, that doesn't become a big problem like it would've in those days, or have it become a big problem, but then it's overshadowing the show itself. I'm not sure the show is going to come through very well in either scenario, is all I'd say about it, & might be pretty disappointing one way or the other, but I could easily be wrong about that

 

[Reverend]

Will being gay, or not being gay isn't a major or minor plot point, it's a character trait. Same for the other boys all being straight. How relevant that trait is depends entirely on the narrative.
Now, such a character trait can certainly inform a plot point, like say Mike and Eleven's make-out fixation being a sore spot for Hopper, or Dustin (last seen repeatedly striking out on the dance floor) finding a girlfriend at science camp. But then these are hardly the only things that matter about these characters.

If for the sake of argument Will is gay then what difference would it really make? I mean besides adding an extra layer of depth to his feelings of isolation and "otherness", even among childhood friends, re-contextualising what we've seen of his family dynamic and give him something other than being "the victim" to set him apart from the other kids. Oh and representation for all the gay kids out there who could benefit from knowing they're not the only ones...yeah, it wouldn't make any difference at all.

I generally avoid using "queer" because I have such a vague understanding of the complexities, subtleties, and connotations of the term and its history. If someone asks me to use it for them, then I'll use it, otherwise I don't want to risk offending because I know I don't know. But I am trying to learn.

I usually stick with LGBTQ+ although I understand that some find the "+" problematic because it's a hand wave for all the others. I know of at least asexual, intersexual, and non-binary but i know there are others but I forget about them (which is why i use "+").

Personally I get the feeling "queer" is sometimes like the n-word of non heterosexuals. As in it's a slur that's been reclaimed and can be used freely amongst them, but if you're *not* a part of that world then you should probably think twice before using it.

The only reason I think it'd be easier to use it more generally is mostly out of my own laziness. I mean "LGBTQ+" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue so well and all it's basically doing is trying to encompass everyone that isn't cis gendered herterosexual, which "queer" kinda already does. But then we run into the "it used to be much more of a slur" issue and we're back to hard to pronounce initialisms

 

[JD]

Not that I have any say in the matter, but I tend to think just using "queer" and a shorthand for anyone that isn't straight is just so much simpler because I swear every time I try to say or type "LGBTQ+" I either forget a letter or they've gone and added an extra one in there, purely to fuck with my increasing aged and easily addled brain no doubt!
That said, aside from issues of reductivism; given it's literal meaning ("strange", which is oddly appropriate for this show) I can see why some might take exception since it can be construed as "abnormal", which just opens a whole other can of semantic worms.

I generally avoid using "queer" because I have such a vague understanding of the complexities, subtleties, and connotations of the term and its history. If someone asks me to use it for them, then I'll use it, otherwise I don't want to risk offending because I know I don't know. But I am trying to learn.

I usually stick with LGBTQ+ although I understand that some find the "+" problematic because it's a hand wave for all the others. I know of at least asexual, intersexual, and non-binary but i know there are others but I forget about them (which is why i use "+").

A few weeks back they did a United Shades of America episodes on the LGBTQ+ community in the South, and they actually went through all of the groups included in LGBTQ+ and it goes on forever if you try to include all of the letters for the different groups.

 

[Mojochi]

And on a lighter note... these are pretty awesome

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[JD]

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Is there anyway to see the view count metrics for the video for the Neverending Story song? I imagine the needle shoots up hard on July 5th.

ETA: That first Hopper PI video is really nicely done.

 

[Trekker4747]

Personally I hope they don't make the sexuality of underage minors a major plot point. That's just creepy.

.... You realize a good chunk of this season focused on the sexuality of Mike and Lucas and to some extent Dustin right?

Oh, they're heterosexual so that's okay. We just can't focus on Will's sexuality because, presumably, he's homosexual.

I don't think there's much "evidence" Will is gay or if he just simply hasn't reached a point yet where he's actively interested in girls or even into pursuing them. He's very much still at that age, and in an awkward social dynamic (not to mention the "zombie boy" thing) where girls are just not on his RADAR and if they are, unattainable.

"You don't like girls!" is a very common attack to use with male peers at that age when a friend shows little interest in girls or difficult accepting his friends spending time with girlfriends. It doesn't mean "It's 1985 and even though it's a HUGE stigma that people shy, cower and hide from. You and I had a personal conversation at some point where you expressed to me your homosexual feelings when you're at an age and, again, a decade where such things were not understood or easily accepted."

It means "You're jealous I have a girlfriend and spend time with her, and you don't."

Maybe Will is gay, maybe he isn't. Whatever. But it's pretty damn stupid to speculate that he might be because of a line of dialogue used about him that's a classic childhood attack, or because of the behaviors and actions of his Working-Class father in Season 1.

Will also apparently had interest in a female classmate in Season 1 (enough so he'd be surprised to see her crying at his "funeral") and danced with a girl at the dance at the end of Season 2.

Is or isn't he gay? Who knows. He's a teenage boy who's had a very fucked-up last two years of his life so his growth into any kind of sexual interest is likely stunted.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

I gotta say I'm in agreement with that. This is a period piece after all, & I'm just telling you, having lived through it at the exact same age as those kids. Nope & nope. That subject didn't fly in those days, least of all among teens.

Largely true. I remember that era well, and even living in as liberal an area as Southern California (my childhood home cities were all there), children and teens were not dealing with this subject the ways its presented through the lens of current TV plots.

More than not, Will would've had issues within his friend group & probably would've had the shit beaten out of him by anyone who wasn't, & more than likely would've had serious problems at home too, especially with that asshat father

In Will's case, I think if he had any identity issues, his mother and brother would try to (at least) understand him, rather than criticize/abuse him, since we have seen how dedicated they are to Will, no matter what he was going through.

I don't think there's much "evidence" Will is gay or if he just simply hasn't reached a point yet where he's actively interested in girls or even into pursuing them. He's very much still at that age, and in an awkward social dynamic (not to mention the "zombie boy" thing) where girls are just not on his RADAR and if they are, unattainable.

Good insight. This season was very sharp in exploring that march toward maturity for some teens, and the lack of development in others from experiences such as relationships and love. I remember many a "Will" type friends from my childhood who were wanting to play with their toys, etc., while the rest of us already taking that aforementioned march toward maturity. The argument between Mike and Will was one of the more honest character scenes in this series' history, along with the sense of contrition Lucas shows toward Will (pool house supply shed scene).

"You don't like girls!" is a very common attack to use with male peers at that age when a friend shows little interest in girls or difficult accepting his friends spending time with girlfriends.

Indeed.

It doesn't mean "It's 1985 and even though it's a HUGE stigma that people shy, cower and hide from. You and I had a personal conversation at some point where you expressed to me your homosexual feelings when you're at an age and, again, a decade where such things were not understood or easily accepted."

It means "You're jealous I have a girlfriend and spend time with her, and you don't."

Rational observation.

Maybe Will is gay, maybe he isn't. Whatever. But it's pretty damn stupid to speculate that he might be because of a line of dialogue used about him that's a classic childhood attack, or because of the behaviors and actions of his Working-Class father in Season 1.
Will also apparently had interest in a female classmate in Season 1 (enough so he'd be surprised to see her crying at his "funeral") and danced with a girl at the dance at the end of Season 2.

Good points, and his interest was never even hinted at his doing it for "appearances" or to keep up with the interests of his friends, or to convince himself he's straight.

Is or isn't he gay? Who knows. He's a teenage boy who's had a very fucked-up last two years of his life so his growth into any kind of sexual interest is likely stunted.

Agreed. Perhaps he is still suffering from a form of PTSD, and while he's close to his core friends, he might feel he's not quite to go as far as Mike or Lucas in pursuing a girlfriend.