Spoilers Stranger Things - Season 3

[JirinPanthosa]

Hopper wasn’t wrong to take Mike down a peg with his bratty attitude. He’s just way too pleased with himself when it works.

There is a difference between Mike though and some random kid dating his daughter. He’s proven he’s not going to hurt her and will risk his life to protect her, he’s also been entrusted with her deadly secret and protected it. Mike was acting entitled and bratty and needed a dressing down. But he should have more trust than some random kid from school.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

Being spanked or popped on the ear, etc. for showing disrespect is not child abuse. It's discipline. I guess I was "abused" as a child too, then, if being hit qualifies as abuse. Hint: It doesn't, and I wasn't.

I'm sorry, sometimes children need to be hit. Sometimes that's the only language they listen to. Just don't cross certain lines with it and don't be a monster about it (i.e. Billy's dad).

Hopper handled Mike the right way, I think. He was pleased with himself because the dude is not an experienced parent. His daughter died extremely young, and he's spent the last 8-ish years in a hole. He was literally handed a teenager in his lap with next to no parenting experience, when being a cop is the only thing he knows. Intimidating Mike (and it actually working) pleased him because he finally got a victory over rebellious teenagers.

It was meant to be funny. It was funny.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

No, kids never need to be hit by an adult. Sorry, that’s just utter nonsense and not real discipline. It leads to kids conforming out of fear, not out of learning their behavior is wrong. Kids who “learn” that way are more likely to be violent to women, and all they’ve learned is that violence is okay and to make sure they don’t get caught. They only behave as long as the authority figure is around.

I understand why Hopper was so pleased with himself. It just strikes me as immature for a man of his status.

Wasn’t Steve the masculine jerk in season 1? What’s transformed him into the beta?

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Eh, for me it was too much. I mean there's already a lot we have to accept for this story to work and the entire genre it's playing in. We don't need a character peaking over the fourth wall saying things like this, I mean in this genre we have to accept that bunch of kids can just penetrate a Russian base and pretty much not get caught until things really go wrong. We don't need this character playing a precocious role and doing the smug tropes of "I have something you want, but you need to give me something first so I'm going to continue to turn down a progressing series of offers until I smugly demand you give me everything. It was just too much and it never reached a point where it was "endearing" or even entertaining.

To each his own, I guess. I'm assuming the response to the Erica character during season 2 was the reason for the character's "promotion," and to continue being an irritant to Lucas. I do think the showrunners wanted another character type to say or do things the regulars would/could not, just so the heroes did not come off as know-it-all characters who did not need assistance.

One thing we do learn about Erica's relationship to her brother is that she was surprised/disbelieving that he had any involvement with the main events of the past two seasons. Its almost as if she thought he was cowardly, unless I'm misreading her comment/behavior.

I think Mike is an asshole little kid who was clearly not smacked by his parents enough and he lives in the 19-fucking--80s. Somehow Nancy turned out "normal" but, he's a little asshole. Constantly yelling at his parents when they do things like call him up for a meal or something, and the disrespectful way he behaved towards Hopper, whispering things at Eleven when Hopper sat them down for the "heart to heart."

Yeah, yeah, he's a young teenager and all of that, I get it. But the kid is an asshole.

Mike was utterly disrespectful early on, and his obsession being rewarded with Eleven dumping him was satisfying. It was an interesting mirror: Mike was essentially telling Will that they're growing up, yet Mike was the most immature of all his peer group when it involved Eleven.

 

[theenglish]

If something was demagnetizing everything in town wouldn’t it erase all computer data? (All 1 meg of it?)

All those floppy discs would be erased.

 

[Trekker4747]

Being spanked or popped on the ear, etc. for showing disrespect is not child abuse. It's discipline. I guess I was "abused" as a child too, then, if being hit qualifies as abuse. Hint: It doesn't, and I wasn't.

I'm sorry, sometimes children need to be hit. Sometimes that's the only language they listen to. Just don't cross certain lines with it and don't be a monster about it (i.e. Billy's dad).

No, kids never need to be hit by an adult. Sorry, that’s just utter nonsense and not real discipline. It leads to kids conforming out of fear, not out of learning their behavior is wrong. Kids who “learn” that way are more likely to be violent to women, and all they’ve learned is that violence is okay and to make sure they don’t get caught. They only behave as long as the authority figure is around.

That's, sort of, how I see it. I mean, generations of children were spanked and such for their behavior and somehow by and large things turned out... "Okay." I mean, there's loads of problems but it's not like virtually everyone is a monster, abuser, rapist, etc. I was spanked as a child for poor behavior, but I didn't come out as someone who's violent towards women for thinks violence is okay. Just that sometimes, maybe, a smack across the face when a kid is being out of line is called for.

Don't bring out the belt and whip them into oblivion because they spilled some milk, that's child abuse.

But when a kid is being lippy and disrespectful and they're at an age where they should know better? (Like Mike's been during the entire run of the show) a smack in some instances could be called for to get the kid to snap out of it and realize their behavior is out of line.

There's a difference, a big difference, between a smack across the face for being disrespectful (which wouldn't have been Hopper's place to go) and the kind of thing Billy apparently grew up in.

Wasn’t Steve the masculine jerk in season 1?

Yes, but in S2 when Billy showed up and had more than his hair to get him attention, Steve was taken down a peg. [/quote]

What’s transformed him into the beta?

The real world.

 

[sttngfan1701d]

"Masculine jerk" is the wrong way to describe Steve in S1. He was ego-driven. He did two truly "jerk" things in S1 -- destroying Jonathan's camera and falsely slut-shaming Nancy on the movie board, both of which he atoned for. His character growth started when he realized he was wrong after getting beaten up. It was completed after Billy came into town and steamrolled him in S2.

They could've easily made Steve into a jerk. They were going to, but reversed course. It was the right move, I think, because being a teenager means you're not fully formed. People in real life are formed by their growth in time and experiences, and characters should be too. It reminds me of the gnashing of teeth over El's jealousy of Max in S2. So many articles were written about how that "reinforced harmful tropes about young women" and all sorts of other abject nonsense...written by people who apparently forgot what it was like to be THIRTEEN YEARS OLD, projecting adult behavior mores on children, as if children should act like grownups.

So last year El was immature and possessive. This year Mike was immature and possessive. They're kids...and this is how it should work. In El's case, she literally grew up in a lab setting and had no friends or social skills her whole life, so of course she was going to feel jealous of another girl initially....and now she's learning. In Mike's case, in addition to this being his first relationship and having no boundaries as yet, he didn't want to lose El again. He was afraid to "let her out" so to speak (like Hopper with his rules). Personally I think the Duffers are doing a good job of showing this. These characters are supposed to be 14-15. How many people weren't immature at that age?

So much word salad is thrown around these days as our entertainment is hyper-analyzed to see if it's "problematic" for any number of (usually) ridiculous reasons. Sometimes I think people forget that shows and movies have characters as complex as humans are. But it's easier to boil it down into one trait without bothering to see the whole...or the progression.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

People in real life are formed by their growth in time and experiences, and characters should be too. It reminds me of the gnashing of teeth over El's jealousy of Max in S2. So many articles were written about how that "reinforced harmful tropes about young women" and all sorts of other abject nonsense...written by people who apparently forgot what it was like to be THIRTEEN YEARS OLD, projecting adult behavior mores on children, as if children should act like grownups.

Adults behave with open, irrational jealousy, too, so whoever convinced themselves that El's jealousy of Max and Mike was somehow "wrong"/"sending the wrong message" they were/are living in a defensive mindset trying to erase natural human emotions.

Now, when it comes to Mike, I do not believe reactions to his behavior were influenced by external attempts to inject social string-pulling into the analysis....

So last year El was immature and possessive. This year Mike was immature and possessive. They're kids...and this is how it should work. In El's case, she literally grew up in a lab setting and had no friends or social skills her whole life, so of course she was going to feel jealous of another girl initially....and now she's learning. In Mike's case, in addition to this being his first relationship and having no boundaries as yet, he didn't want to lose El again. He was afraid to "let her out" so to speak (like Hopper with his rules). Personally I think the Duffers are doing a good job of showing this. These characters are supposed to be 14-15. How many people weren't immature at that age?

Okay, but Mike is not only a bit older, but lives in an environment where rules and basic decorum exist (at least in his home). He knows that Hopper is not only El's father, but is an adult who has--in fact--done more to make sure El was protected than he (Mike) did. For all of Mike's professed love for El, he should be very appreciative to Hopper for all he did, and continued to do for El, but he's not.

After the time skip between seasons two and three, Mike should have toned down his negative, disrespectful attitude toward those who are on "his side" of life (or to anyone, to be honest, as strangers will not be so kind or willing to let such nasty behavior slide when its directed at them). Max was correct to call him out on his controlling treatment/possessive behavior regarding El. As mentioned yesterday, there's an irony in Mike talking about "growing up" to Will, yet he is immature where El / treating others close to him are concerned.

So much word salad is thrown around these days as our entertainment is hyper-analyzed to see if it's "problematic" for any number of (usually) ridiculous reasons.

Quoted for truth.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

But when a kid is being lippy and disrespectful and they're at an age where they should know better? (Like Mike's been during the entire run of the show) a smack in some instances could be called for to get the kid to snap out of it and realize their behavior is out of line.

How is being "lippy" require inflicting physical pain? After Hammurabi, the punishment must fit the crime. Being
"lippy" is verbal; smacking a kid is physical. They simply are not equal. Moreover, the smack is not an action that is taken calmly and logically after some reflection by the parent. It is an impulsive reaction based on the fact that the parent feels hurt. That's where corporal punishment trends into child abuse: there is no real attempt to think about what the child did or how to address it. It is merely a reaction based on the parent's feelings of being embarrassed, slighted, frustrated, disappointed, etc.

In the end, corporal punishment reflects what the parent feels, not what the child did. That's why it's child abuse.

 

[Reverend]

In my experience, all using violence as a means of discipline does is engender fear, not respect and the only lesson it imparts is "the person that hits the hardest, gets to have their own way". No matter which way you cut it, it's shitty parenting, doubly so if you feel you've been outwitted by a 14 year old. If you can't handle that then you should have gotten a goldfish or something instead of a kid.

 

[urbandefault]

Now, back on topic.

What was the deal with the exploding rats???

 

[Nerys Myk]

Now, back on topic.

What was the deal with the exploding rats???

Same as the humans turning into blobs.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Same as the humans turning into blobs.

Yep, with a little Alien chestbursting action.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Yeah, that stuff was pretty gross, if only intellectually so. Visually, it was merely CGI gross, but whenever I actively thought about what the Mind Flayer was composed of, I was seriously grossed out. Aside from when it escaped down the grate outside of the hospital and left behind some bones, I was usually able to not think about it.

 

[Mojochi]

Yeah, that stuff was pretty gross, if only intellectually so. Visually, it was merely CGI gross, but whenever I actively thought about what the Mind Flayer was composed of, I was seriously grossed out. Aside from when it escaped down the grate outside of the hospital and left behind some bones, I was usually able to not think about it.

Nothing done with CGI, to this day, gives me any kind of reaction, least of all as viscerally as what the practical FX in John Carpenter's The Thing did to me. That is the bar I hold everything up to, & while this stuff here was a neat idea & well executed, it doesn't even come close

 

[theenglish]

I am in episode 6, and I am loving the tone and pacing of the season. In many ways it reminds me of the Scream movies in that the show is filled with homages to eighties movies. Russians, buddy cops, wise cracking Hopper. Even the Neutron dance when Hopper is getting Eddie Murphy in BHC. All great fun.

 

[JD]

Just finished up the season, and that whole second half of the season was great.

Spoiler: plot details for the whole season

I think my biggest complaint about the season as a whole, was that it took us all the way until the last episode to get the whole cast together. They way they had everybody grouped was good, but I still would have liked it better if we got more of everybody together.
I liked Erica playing a bigger role, I thought she was pretty funny. It's pretty much a tradition for these kind of stories for there to be at least one character who calls the others out on the crazy bullshit, and I thought she played that role pretty well.
I was disappointed they killed Alexi, I was kind of starting to like him.
I liked Robin a lot, she was pretty fun. The reveal that she was gay was unexpected, and I was pleasantly surprised by Steve's reaction.
I didn't really have a problem with Cary Elwes, yeah his character was a douchbag, but I did a good job, and he wasn't quite as over the top as the news paper guys.
I'm not sure who was scarier, the big gooey monster, or the Russian Terminator.
I have to agree with the people who said Mike was being kind of an asshole at times, but with the way they had Max and the other calling him out, I'm thinking that was kind of supposed to be the point.
I was kind of shocked they actually managed to make me feel bad, for Billy, but it was cool that he actually got to go out on a heroic note.
I did not expect Hop to actually die, that was a huge shock.
I'm curious if we'll find out what became of the big gooey Mind Flayer monster, because I'm thinking the fact that it's body is potentially still around might be important. I have admit, I half expected it to turn back into the people it was made out of when it died.
I wonder what the Wheelers and Eleven leaving Hawkins will mean for the future of the show, if it has one. Are they just going to end up getting dragged back by whatever happens next, or could we see the scope expand beyond Hawkins?
The mid-credits scene was definitely interesting. It's pretty obvious that Russians' American prisoner is Hopper, we never actually saw him die, so I'm pretty sure he's still alive. I could maybe see it being someone else, but there would have to be a pretty good reason for Hop not to go back to Joyce and the kids, I just can't see him staying away for 3 months without a very, very good reason.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

Spoiler: Re: The post credits scene

I know everyone (my wife included) is totally convinced 'the american' is Hopper, but I don't buy it. You can't top that exit, and trying would be a recipe for disappointment.

Also, Hopper isn't the only 'dead' American whose body we never saw and he isn't even the one most in line with where the story is going. There's no better time to explore's Eleven's powers fully than when she's lost them entirely/trying to get them back - and that makes it the perfect time to reintroduce Dr. Brenner. Not only did we never se his body, but the underling in season 2 outright claimed Brenner was still alive and he, unlike Hopper, would actually make sense as a Russian prisoner (seriously, forget how did he survive the explosion and just try explaining how Hopper got smuggled out of the town with the US military literally everywhere). Brenner obviously had to flee the country, so why not try to defect in the hope of continuing your research? And that would also neatly explain how the Russians knew about the gate in the first place, which is another iffy concept in the season 3 russian plot.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

@grendelsbayne

Spoiler

The American in the cell wasn't the only indication that Hopper might not be dead. We never seen him die, and Joyce can't see him when she turns the key. The music that is playing when Eleven reads his letter is the same music when not-Will's body is pulled from the quarry.

It could be that Hopper is dead. However, the Duffers have built in a few outs if they want to bring him back to life

 

[Grendelsbayne]

@grendelsbayne

Spoiler

The American in the cell wasn't the only indication that Hopper might not be dead. We never seen him die, and Joyce can't see him when she turns the key. The music that is playing when Eleven reads his letter is the same music when not-Will's body is pulled from the quarry.

It could be that Hopper is dead. However, the Duffers have built in a few outs if they want to bring him back to life

I know all of that (well, the music I didn't), I just don't think it would work well and the other possibility I mentioned is clearly (imo) much stronger both in believability and story-building.