STII Original Version?

[Therin of Andor]

I thought Greg Cox's novel did a great job of making the inexplicable explicable. Had there been young children on Khan's ship in "Space Seed" someone would have mentioned it.

There's no other sensible way to explain why ST II's superhumans were all young blond Aryan types, played by The Phoenix himself, some muscle covergirls, and a team of professional Chippendale dancers (which they really were!)

 

[tharpdevenport]

Kegek said:

RookieBatman said:
One was Truman hiring a prostitute to pretend to be that girl that he used to like from school (and implying that this was a regular routine they did, going as far as her wearing a wig, I think).

Did he then find out she really was that girl and then she fell off a bell-tower to her doom?

Sorry, er... flashes of Vertigo.

A darker Truman might have been interesting stuff. One thing I never quite got, though, was the use of music from Powaqqatsi. There's a whole track that's identical, note for note, to a Glass piece in that film... and I don't remember if they paid royalties to use it or if it was just a knockoff job.

It's not just note-for-note, it IS the work.
http://soundtrackcollector.com/catalog/soundtrackdetail.php?movieid=9613


Glass (and Kilar before or after) were doing the score (not together) and Dallwitz was the final composer. Some of Glass' original pieces are left in, however.

 

[Borg451]

Hi. off topic again...

has anyone ever noticed similarities between the truman show music and 'New Born' by Muse?

anyne know the reasons for this?


also ST2 and Khan is awesome how it is..

 

[Admiral_Young]

Off topic again...LOL...I've never heard of Batman and Batman Returns scripts or treatments featuring Robin. I always thought that Tim Burton chose not to use Robin because he wanted this to be a dark intereptation of Batman and having Robin part of it would change that. I guess he won out since the movies got made without him.

Admiral Young

 

[Data Holmes]

Admiral_Young said:

Off topic again...LOL...I've never heard of Batman and Batman Returns scripts or treatments featuring Robin. I always thought that Tim Burton chose not to use Robin because he wanted this to be a dark intereptation of Batman and having Robin part of it would change that. I guess he won out since the movies got made without him.

Admiral Young

Robin was cast. One of the Wayns brothers was set to play him. He even had a suit made and some test shots/footage shot.


Also, Billy Dee Williams was set to play Harvy Dent/Two face in the third film, which was in his contract from the first film. And they had to pay him to get to recast it...

 

[Admiral_Young]

Ok the Wayns brothers thing yeah! Interesting choice...I had heard about that but never have seen the scripts.

Admiral Young

 

[Therin of Andor]

An unused idea from the first film shows Robin's parents murdered by the Joker. Check out the double disk DVD edition of Tim Burton's "Batman". It has a storyboard sequence of one of the scenes from this subplot. Robin would have been played by Ricky Addison Reed.

In an early script of "Batman Returns", he was portrayed as a technologically savvy street kid (ie. more like the Jason Todd version of the comics) who helps Batman escape the Penguin, and then plays a crucial role in the final confrontation. He was to be played by Marlon Wayans.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

Ummm... I think we need to get back on topic, folks... As much as I like Batman, we were talking about STII...

 

[Kegek]

Peach Wookiee said:
Ummm... I think we need to get back on topic, folks... As much as I like Batman, we were talking about STII...

I thought this thread was about Philip Glass' contribution or lack thereof to "The Truman Show."

But seriously, wasn't there a really crazy plot about Khan that was going to have him meet Kirk? I vaguely recall something like a holodeck, and Attila the Hun or something... Therin, you seem to have a volumnious knowledge, any clue what I'm talking about?

 

[RookieBatman]

I was just mainly interest in the specific events that cause Spock's death. Like, does he die in a similar circumstances to the current ending, just sooner? Does he get shot in the back? Fall off a bridge? Ceti Eel-induced phaser poisoning?
That was basically what I was hoping to find out, but alas, the answers to life's great mysteries are not always knowable.

 

[Therin of Andor]

RookieBatman said:
I was just mainly interest in the specific events that cause Spock's death. Like, does he die in a similar circumstances to the current ending, just sooner?

I think he was to suffer a senseless death as a result of the first encounter with Reliant (although when you think about it, that's how they ousted Sonak in TMP). Maybe explosive feedback from a console, which is how they "killed" everyone in the bridge simulator in the final version? If they'd killed Spock early in the film, then Peter Preston might not have been sacrificed?

Harve Bennett had promised Nimoy a magnificent death scene, so maybe that scene where Kirk can't even touch the dying, irradiated Spock was to have been earlier in the film? As I said earlier, I don't think the various outlines had actually been scripted before the secret of Spock's death was leaked. Roddenberry only knew about it because he'd just done his first set of memos.

The senseless death of a regular character, early into a "normal" mission, was ultimately used when Denise Crosby asked to be released from her contract in TNG.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

IIRC, he was supposed to die a la Janet Leigh in "Psycho" and the rest of the film would be... "OMG! They killed Spock! You bastards must die!" or something to that effect.

 

[Stardate]

The pre-empting of Spock's proposed death was orchestrated by Roddenberry, IIRC, because he was convinced that it was a mistake to kill off Spock - and yet no one was listening to his memos.

is it only me or wasn't Roddenberry right to not kill Spock. Ironically both Nimoy and Harve changed their mind having Spock death permanent thus the remember scene was cocktail as window for Spock return in the sequel. Personally i found it undermined the TWOK emotional impact.(OMG Spock died yank, yank, don't you worry he will do Jesus Christ trick in TSFS)

 

[Data Holmes]

Vejur said:

The pre-empting of Spock's proposed death was orchestrated by Roddenberry, IIRC, because he was convinced that it was a mistake to kill off Spock - and yet no one was listening to his memos.

is it only me or wasn't Roddenberry right to not kill Spock. Ironically both Nimoy and Harve changed their mind having Spock death permanent thus the remember scene was cocktail as window for Spock return in the sequel. Personally i found it undermined the TWOK emotional impact.(OMG Spock died yank, yank, don't you worry he will do Jesus Christ trick in TSFS)

Why do you think Meyer was pissed for a while. He still contends to this day that it would have been better to leave him dead, and I agree.

 

[Stardate]

hutt359 said:

Vejur said:

The pre-empting of Spock's proposed death was orchestrated by Roddenberry, IIRC, because he was convinced that it was a mistake to kill off Spock - and yet no one was listening to his memos.

is it only me or wasn't Roddenberry right to not kill Spock. Ironically both Nimoy and Harve changed their mind having Spock death permanent thus the remember scene was cocktail as window for Spock return in the sequel. Personally i found it undermined the TWOK emotional impact.(OMG Spock died yank, yank, don't you worry he will do Jesus Christ trick in TSFS)

Why do you think Meyer was pissed for a while. He still contends to this day that it would have been better to leave him dead, and I agree.

me too.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Vejur said:
OMG Spock died yank, yank, don't you worry he will do Jesus Christ trick in TSFS

Not at all. The way the script for ST III was conceived and constructed, there was never a certainty that going "In search of... Spock" (ie. parodying Nimoy's documentary series) was going to find Spock alive, or that Nimoy would be playing him.

The treatment "Return to Genesis" had the various characters looking into mirrors and seeing a vampiric Spock creature staring back at them, warning them, during their ongoing mission to prevent Romulans from stealing the secret of Genesis.

This creature may or may not have been played by Nimoy - but signing Nimoy as director was very clever, since now anyone watching Nimoy drive through the Paramount gates during production had no idea if they'd just seen the director or one of the featured players. And great free publicity to have "Spock" direct the movie sequel to the film in which he'd been killed off. The media loved it!

Saavik and David had been added to ST II with the idea that new, younger characters would be needed if/when ST returned to TV as a series of telemovies, and as the TOS cast continued to age. Especially since they'd already lost Will Decker and Ilia (both were intended to be ongoing characters for "ST Phase II", and both originally survived "In Thy Image"). All the "Phase II" scripts had vacant spots for a young male lead, a smart/mysterious science officer, and an attractive, young leading lady.

The strong rumour, as ST III was being written, was that Saavik would somehow be channeling the memories of the lost Spock during this new adventure. Kirstie Alley had already been groomed and promoted as a Nimoy replacement in the cast, but suddenly with ST III's Director Nimoy, he wanted to go in a very different direction, and he essentially reconceptualized the character by casting (and directing) Robin Curtis.

And, as the script shows, the timing of the regenerated Spock's growth spurts (ie. tied to the seismic activity of the planet), any younger actor could have been playing Spock when he got beamed up. So Nimoy's safety net with the movie meant that, if he wasn't wanting to actually play Spock again, they could have beamed up Joe W Davis as the planet blew up and fandom would be celebrating a new Spock for the next ST production! (And young enough to play all the lines assigned to Xon in the "Phase II" scripts.)

 

[CaptainStoner]

Fascinating.

 

[Plum]

Holy crap. Thanks for posting that Therin of Andor. I was aware of about 20 percent of what you said and the rest, well, they don't make movies like that anymore! ... and yet, those movies were better. Hmm.