STID Federation Seal Question...

[Gotham Central]

Does anyone know why the great seal of the Federation was changed for STID?

I remember watching the movie and thinking that it was odd that the flag, which has historically been blue was suddenly white and that the seal suddenly had gear teeth.

Did the International Labour Organization fund this movie because that seal is litterally the ILO logo with stars replacing the letters.

 

[M'Sharak]

Have you any screencaps we could look at?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Click!

I say it symbolizes a harsher, post-Vulcan Federation. The usual Federation flag appears at the start of the movie in London, outside the Kelvin Memorial Archive.

 

[Gotham Central]

STID UFP Flag

ILO Flag

 

[MrJ]

They just wanted to change something else for no reason, and make it look "kewler". Give us "old school" fans something else to complain about... oh wait, I forgot, we're just a "vocal minority" and our opinions don't count.

 

[M'Sharak]

STID UFP Flag

ILO Flag

The gear wheel in the first one seems closer to the whole wheel of the Rotary Club (though I confess I have no idea at all what that might imply) than to the interrupted wheel of the ILO emblem. Have we not previously seen any Federation (or Starfleet) emblem in which a gear-wheel device figures?

They just wanted to change something else for no reason, and make it look "kewler". Give us "old school" fans something else to complain about... oh wait, I forgot, we're just a "vocal minority"...

A vocal minority among old-school fans? Yes, that does appear to be the case.

... and our opinions don't count.

Everyone's opinions count, though the value of some may be diminished due to having been poorly expressed or ill-informed.

 

[Cyke101]

They just wanted to change something else for no reason, and make it look "kewler". Give us "old school" fans something else to complain about... oh wait, I forgot, we're just a "vocal minority" and our opinions don't count.

The thing is, people always equate change with loss, but these types of changes are always deliberate (so no, not for "no reason."). It was true ever since the Klingon bumpy heads first appeared in TMP, extending to the Connie-Defiant's aft torpedo launcher in In A Mirror, Darkly and the E-D's red saucer impulse engines in TATV. Weapons, costumes, insignia, old standbys change. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

This slightly sharper UFP logo in no way overwrites or invalidates whatever Federation flags you might have up in your bedroom. Heck, for all we know, the Abramsverse might be using both simultaneously, the way Starfleet used TNG-style ovals behind the chevron for set decoration while everyone wore DS9/VOY-style badges in Generations.

P.S. Passive-aggressively trying to appropriate victim language hardly ever strengthens an opinion.

 

[Sindatur]

Yea...Seals, another way STiD ripped off the Classic TOS movies. If they were gonna sink that low, they should've at least used the Whales instead of Seals ....

Interesting, I hadn't noticed that, definitely wonder if there was a meaningful reason behind the specific shape of the change in the Seal

 

[Nerys Myk]

They should have used this flag!!!!!

CANON VIOLATION!!!!!!

 

[T'Girl]

They could of reused the national flag of Cuba, like in TOS's The Menagerie.

Desi Arnaz would have been proud.

 

[The Librarian]

They just wanted to change something else for no reason, and make it look "kewler". Give us "old school" fans something else to complain about... oh wait, I forgot, we're just a "vocal minority" and our opinions don't count.

Yes, they did it specifically to annoy fans. It's not like the emblem hasn't been constantly changing over the years between just about every movie and season of the TV shows.

 

[iguana_tonante]

STID UFP Flag

ILO Flag

The gear wheel in the first one seems closer to the whole wheel of the Rotary Club (though I confess I have no idea at all what that might imply) than to the interrupted wheel of the ILO emblem.

It also reminds me of the national emblem of Italy, the "seal" of the Italian Republic. The cogwheel symbolizes industriousness and stregth through cooperation (many cogs coming together to form a mechanism).

 

[Franklin]

STID UFP Flag

ILO Flag

The gear wheel in the first one seems closer to the whole wheel of the Rotary Club (though I confess I have no idea at all what that might imply) than to the interrupted wheel of the ILO emblem.

It also reminds me of the national emblem of Italy, the "seal" of the Italian Republic. The cogwheel symbolizes industriousness and stregth through cooperation (many cogs coming together to form a mechanism).

I type the following with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek and only as a cheap joke (not a cheap shot), but with over 50 governments in Italy since the end of WWII, I'm surprised to see a symbol of cooperation in the Italian emblem.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I will gladly accept the joke, since I can't really argue against it.

But to be serious for just a moment, the interesting thing is that, over the period from 1948 to 1992, the Italian government was actually pretty solid and saw an incredible expansion of wealth and prosperity (the so-called "economic miracle"). Sure, the cabinets came and went pretty fast due to political maneuvering inside the majority parties, but the actual policies were very well defined and firmly held in place even by wildly different hands. An experiment of unstable equilibrium, if you wish, but a successful one nonetheless.

(Of course, this a wide oversimplification, and in the end the system kinda collapsed upon itself due to corruption, cronyism, and scandals. But the economic growth was real, and the vast improvements in living conditions touched all levels of Italian society.)

And to go back on topic (kinda), and because I think it's pretty awesome, I will mention that the five-pointed star in the Italian emblem is supposed to represent the planet Venus, and it goes back to the 3,000 years old legend of Aeneas's flight after the destruction of Troy to the Land of Sunset, guided by the star of his divine mother, the goddess Venus, and establish Italy as the land of beauty, love, and passion.

 

[M'Sharak]

And to go back on topic (kinda), and because I think it's pretty awesome, I will mention that the five-pointed star in the Italian emblem is supposed to represent the planet Venus, and it goes back to the 3,000 years old legend of Aeneas's flight after the destruction of Troy to the Land of Sunset, guided by the star of his divine mother, the goddess Venus, and establish Italy as the land of beauty, love, and passion.

Top that, Federation!

 

[LisbonPlayer]

Click!

I say it symbolizes a harsher, post-Vulcan Federation. The usual Federation flag appears at the start of the movie in London, outside the Kelvin Memorial Archive.

Nope. That flag is at the academy assembly hall hours before Vulcan is destroyed.
In ST09 we actually can see three different versions of the UFP flag: Besides the "cogwheel" flag there's the "classical" blue one with the "United Federation of Planets" script at the shipyard and at the Academy exteriors and a white variant with classical logo and script also at the academy grounds.

 

[iguana_tonante]

In ST09 we actually can see three different versions of the UFP flag: Besides the "cogwheel" flag there's the "classical" blue one with the "United Federation of Planets" script at the shipyard and at the Academy exteriors and a white variant with classical logo and script also at the academy grounds.

Actually, I'll be happy if they got rid of the name at the bottom. Words on a flag are terrible vexillological design.

Now that I've looked at it for a while, the new "cogwhell" flag kinda looks like a telescope's eyepiece, with the stars seen through it. Kinda neat.

 

[M'Sharak]

Now that I've looked at it for a while, the new "cogwheel" flag kinda looks like a telescope's eyepiece, with the stars seen through it. Kinda neat.

I like it.

 

[Robert Comsol]

Actually, when I saw the cogwheel my first allusion was this particular flag of the German "Workfront"

Sorry - and I really don't want to offend anybody - but all these uniforms and hangars full of dropships...I mean shuttlecraft...and constantly seeing crew members being blown into the deadly vacuum of space reminded me again (like the movie from 2009) too much of "Starship Troopers" ("I'm doing my part").

Add to this a militant Starfleet admiral and a guy who wants to be the "Führer" with his superior breed of supermen.

Bob

 

[iguana_tonante]

Actually, when I saw the cogwheel my first allusion was this particular flag of the German "Workfront"

Sorry - and I really don't want to offend anybody

Yeah. Nothing offensive at all there. Especially the rolleyes.