STID: 10 years later

[Dac]

Will it be looked upon favourably in 10 years? I don't know.

BUT - There is another film that rehashed the Wrath of Khan that came out 11 years ago. How is that looked upon?

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

If you're against reusing material then you should be against reusing material.

How did I know you'd resort to such a simplistic argument? I don't have a problem reusing material or concepts as long as they're executed well on screen and are part of a well-told story. Material that's re-used under different circumstances smacks of laziness, but I should know better than expect anything more sophisticated from a blowhard like Abrams, who hasn't told a worthwhile story since Alias ended.

--Sran

 

[Kruezerman]

But the death scene hardly resembles TWOK! TWOK was about age and getting old, ID was about humility, friendship, and family. They barely used any (maybe three) lines from TWOK.

The entire idea of ID ripping off WOK is utter rubbish and not founded in fact.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

BUT - There is another film that rehashed the Wrath of Khan that came out 11 years ago. How is that looked upon?

Most people prefer not to look at it at all.

--Sran

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

But the death scene hardly resembles TWOK! TWOK was about age and getting old, ID was about humility, friendship, and family. They barely used any (maybe three) lines from TWOK.

You don't think TWOK was about friendship or family? You must have watched a different movie than I did.

--Sran

 

[BillJ]

Will it be looked upon favourably in 10 years? I don't know.

BUT - There is another film that rehashed the Wrath of Khan that came out 11 years ago. How is that looked upon?

But wasn't that pretty much hated the day it opened?

Material that's re-used under different circumstances smacks of laziness, but I should know better than expect anything more sophisticated from a blowhard like Abrams, who hasn't told a worthwhile story since Alias ended.

I wonder how much of the venom that is pointed at Abrams is done so simply because he's successful at what he does. The Nolan Batman films do nothing for me, but I don't run around trying to shit on them or him every chance I get. Same with Star Trek: Deep Space Nine and Star Trek: Voyager. I've simply got better things to do with my time.

 

[Kruezerman]

But the death scene hardly resembles TWOK! TWOK was about age and getting old, ID was about humility, friendship, and family. They barely used any (maybe three) lines from TWOK.

You don't think TWOK was about friendship or family? You must have watched a different movie than I did.

--Sran

That wasn't my point, my point was that while they are similar, they are rather different.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

That wasn't my point, my point was that while they are similar, they are rather different.

You might try illustrating the point differently. Just a thought.

--Sran

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Will it be looked upon favourably in 10 years? I don't know.

BUT - There is another film that rehashed the Wrath of Khan that came out 11 years ago. How is that looked upon?

The Count of Monte Cristo? Eh, I think it's held up well enough.

I think the source material is actually older than TWoK, though.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

The Count of Monte Cristo? Eh, I think it's held up well enough.

--Sran

 

[Kruezerman]

That wasn't my point, my point was that while they are similar, they are rather different.

You might try illustrating the point differently. Just a thought.

--Sran

So you agree with my point?

 

[Belz...]

Well, let's see ...

Yeah but all of that is pretty much a single thing: a reworking of Khan/Marcus from TWOK. Aside from these thin parallels (and as we know, once we start looking for patterns we see them) there is precious little in common between these two movies.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

STID I think people will remember and enjoy fondly 10 years from now. Surprising is how NEM the another TWOK parallel. People's whose exposure to Trek has been limited really enjoy the film. By limited I mean they've only seen at least one series or a few movies of the franchise

While NEM is still reviled on these boards. The fact that non hardcore fans can enjoy it a decade later is comforting. STID is a superior made and execute film. Its legacy will be preserved.

 

[Belz...]

What was a retread ? Apart from the Kirk death reversal scene ?

Are you kidding?

--Sran

No. As I said, aside from the irony of revsersing the Spock/Kirk roles in the death scene, nothing has been retreaded. They re-used Khan and Carol Marcus, but that's not retreading story elements.

The only reason anybody still talks about the SW prequels is because of how shitty they were compared to the original Star Wars trilogy.

Some of us actually like the prequels, and take them as a separate thing from the original trilogy (which, for the record, is superior to the prequels).

 

[The Wormhole]

I doubt STID will any lasting appeal. Too much of it was built around the secrecy of Cumberbatch. In a decade, that won't be a factor at all and when people sit down to watch it it'll just be another generic summer blockbuster. And I say that as someone who kind of enjoyed STID.

Yet we still remember "The Best of Both Worlds" even though so much of it was built on would they save Picard or not. We still watch almost twenty years later even though we learned the answer long, long ago.

I actually think this film is going to be fondly remembered because its such a fun film to watch. Can't wait for the home-video release so I can marathon it with my other favorite Trek films and see how well it compares.

Part 2 of TBOBW generally is considered to be let-down after all the hype and build up it had over the summer of 1990. Indeed, I believe TBOBW's lasting appeal is over the fact that part 1 is a finely crafted episode and that's the reason we're still watching it twenty years later, because part 1 is so good. We only bother with Part 2 because it feels silly not to finish off the story.

 

[CorporalClegg]

The radiation chamber scene was not a retread. It was a visual juxtaposition--something common in art.

If it was a retread, Kirk and Spock would have been properly placed in their previous roles. However, Abrams intentionally switched them around as a visual cue to nuTrek's main theme.

People argue that JJ-Trek is vapid and void of substance, but when he goes and does something rather substantive, the same people dismiss it as cheap and unoriginal.

The guy just can't win.

 

[HaventGotALife]

Do you think STID can still become the ESB of Star Trek? Remember, Empire was only commonly regarded as the greatest SW film until the '90's. In fact, it got very mixed reviews when it was first released...

How do you think STID will be regarded 10 years from now. Personally, I think the film will atain a whole new level of respect and appriciation over the coming years... Some day, people will look back and say: wow, STID was really ahead of its time...

Depending on where this goes after Abrams, I think we will look back at this as the "Dark Time" of Star Trek. Movies that won't stand the test of time.

 

[The Wormhole]

The radiation chamber scene was not a retread. It was a visual juxtaposition--something common in art.

If it was a retread, Kirk and Spock would have been properly placed in their previous roles. However, Abrams intentionally switched them around as a visual cue to nuTrek's main theme.

People argue that JJ-Trek is vapid and void of substance, but when he goes and does something rather substantive, the same people dismiss it as cheap and unoriginal.

The guy just can't win.

It's more than just visual cues, the scene is re-enacted to the point that when Spock ran into the engine room I half-expected there do be an elderly Chinese guy there for Spock to bump into.

 

[Ovation]

The radiation chamber scene was not a retread. It was a visual juxtaposition--something common in art.

If it was a retread, Kirk and Spock would have been properly placed in their previous roles. However, Abrams intentionally switched them around as a visual cue to nuTrek's main theme.

People argue that JJ-Trek is vapid and void of substance, but when he goes and does something rather substantive, the same people dismiss it as cheap and unoriginal.

The guy just can't win.

Best succinct explanation I've come across. Well said.

 

[beamMe]

Do you think STID can still become the ESB of Star Trek? Remember, Empire was only commonly regarded as the greatest SW film until the '90's. In fact, it got very mixed reviews when it was first released...

How do you think STID will be regarded 10 years from now. Personally, I think the film will atain a whole new level of respect and appriciation over the coming years... Some day, people will look back and say: wow, STID was really ahead of its time...

Depending on where this goes after Abrams, I think we will look back at this as the "Dark Time" of Star Trek. Movies that won't stand the test of time.

No.