Stewart calls Nemesis 'pretty weak'
- Thread starter Khan 2.0
- Start date
Very weak, but even weaker as an ending to the TNG movies. I could stomach it easier if it were somewhere in the middle, but for being the last time we would see our beloved characters (until PIC), it was a sorry end, so I could also see why Stewart was more satisfied with Logan as an ending.
Last edited:
I agree, especially the buggy scène Stewart wanted in the movie
I always liked Nemesis.
I think there is a good movie in there, buried under some missteps and bad editing.
^^Yeah, the opening is very good with the music and the Romulans espionage, and Shinzon and his ship are also good, but i could have done without the buggy bits and of course the whole blaming Picard and the federation for no other reason than because.......oh and B4, while totally forgetting about Lore, who i think would have been a way better choice and could have also made a major second villain of the peace in the movie.
It was not a good movie. The storylines they chose for the TNG films were just not good. They went away from the strengths of the show to try to make it something it wasn't, like Picard as an action hero, or turning it into the Picard and Data show. Plus, most of the movies were really just glorified episodes, that couldn't compete with the best of TNG. They made bad creative decisions as well. Nemesis was just the last straw.
I liked it.. Loved the final battle.. only real "space battle" between multipule ships ( other that TWOK) it was the enterprise going all out. and loosing.. Not like the 3 new movies where the enterprise got her ass handed to her with barely firing a shot..
Not really, no. He tended to dodge questions a bit, even. He always seemed like as if he didn't want to say something bad but also never really had any desire to praise it.
Regarding the dune buggy scene... that wasn't Sir Patrick's idea. It was Baird's (as Baird himself states here). Granted, Sir Patrick didn't object because he loves fast cars and he loved shooting the car chase. He probably should have done what everyone else kept doing whenever Baird had one of his "it would be cool if your character did this" moments: Tell him "no way dude, my character would never act like this".
However... TNG actually provides us with a scene that shows us that Jean-Luc likes cars (his cute nerd moment in "The Big Goodbye" when he goes on about seeing "AU-TO-MO-BILES" in the street). I very much doubt anyone who made Nemesis remembered that scene and I know it's a coincidence, but still.
(And no, I don't like Nemesis - I just prefer to blame mostly Stuart Baird for it. lol)
I always liked Nemesis.
Yeah, I liked it too. It's my 2nd favorite TNG movie and probably middle of the road overall. I agree that it has it's weak moments like the dune buggy scene and the B-4 subplot. But otherwise I liked it fine.
Too this day, I honestly don't understand the hate this movie causes in some fans. I swear it gets more hate than Insurrection which I felt was a much weaker film (I still liked Insurrection but it's 4th on my TNG list and next to last overall). I thought Nemesis was much better than Insurrection and a notch above Generations as well.
And Nemesis has the best battle sequence of all the Trek films, Abrams films included. It's protracted, great special effects and sound effects and I loved the collision scene.
It's actually a Star Trek film I like a little more as more time passes.
But then I guess I go against the grain for a lot of things. Beyond is my favorite Abrams-verse Star Trek film so
. And TMP is my favorite Trek film of all time.
of course it didn't help that Nemisis came out around the time of the second Potter & LOTR and even Bond (mega blockbusters the previous TNG films didn't have to contend with. Even the JJ films didn't have anything like those around). abit like if they released the next Trek inbetween Avengers 5, Star Wars X and Bond 26
Last edited:
Nemesis is really my favorite TNG movie--but it definitely wasn't when it was originally released. I was 100% on the hate bandwagon for all its unforgivable flaws. It really wasn't until several years later when I saw the movie again--on a markdown VHS copy that I bought for two bucks--that my opinion on it started to change. Sure, the movie isn't perfect, but I realized there was more that I liked about it than I didn't after all.
I think Sir Patrick's description of Nemesis as being "pretty weak" is in regards to it not having the same kind of finality or gravitas as Logan did. Yes, there was a major death and a change in the Enterprise crew, but it really wasn't the end--the Enterprise would live to fly again with Picard as captain. In comparison, Logan was something of an inexorable funeral march and its ending was pretty definitive. Nemesis could almost be considered lighthearted compared to that, IMO.
I think Sir Patrick's description of Nemesis as being "pretty weak" is in regards to it not having the same kind of finality or gravitas as Logan did. Yes, there was a major death and a change in the Enterprise crew, but it really wasn't the end--the Enterprise would live to fly again with Picard as captain. In comparison, Logan was something of an inexorable funeral march and its ending was pretty definitive. Nemesis could almost be considered lighthearted compared to that, IMO.
I had a different starting point from you when I first saw it as I liked it from the beginning. But like you I find each time I watch it I like it a bit more. I can't even point out why. I still find the same flaws and all. But they bother me a bit less as the years pass. Maybe I'm just mellowing over the years.
It's the opposite of how I feel about Star Trek (2009). I loved it when I first saw it (well except the excessive lens flares and shaky camera) but each time I watch it some of the magic goes away. I mean, I'll always like it I'm sure. But while at one time I considered it one of the top 5 Star Trek films it's now maybe middle of the road for me. And like Nemesis I'm not sure why. It's just not aging well for me.
I've always thought it makes perfect sense to have vehicles with wheels for use in certain environments. I just found the execution of the concept to be a bit off in this case.
The Shinzon character never did much for me, with his crazed plot to drain Picard's blood and destroy Earth for no reason.
Kor
The Shinzon character never did much for me, with his crazed plot to drain Picard's blood and destroy Earth for no reason.
Kor
I think a lot of people get biased against the film strictly due to Data's death, honestly.
People complain a lot about the dune buggy chase and the convoluted motivations of the villain....but those elements (gratuitous action and villains that make no sense) are staples of many Star Trek movies.
I don't have a problem with the portrayal of Data's death, or Kirk's for that matter. Nobody lives forever, and not everyone gets to go out in an idealized, perfectly satisfying sort of way. Never bothered me in the slightest.
Maybe. I sometimes wonder how much group think has to do with it ('everyone' hates it so there must be something wrong with it)---though I'm always quick to point out that doesn't mean people can't have valid criticisms and not everyone likes what I like. But I can't help but feel maybe in some cases it's a popular movie to hate on so more people do.
And it was easy to hate on because it wasn't number 1 the week it was released like every other Trek film. So there must be something wrong with it, right? While it doesn't have the blockbuster appeal of TWOK, FC or Star Trek (2009), Paramount did Nemesis no favors by releasing it when they did. TWOK may have had trouble competing with Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings and 007 all at the same time. And I'd argue Star Trek, Potter, Lord and 007 all pull from a similar pool of fans and there is only so much to go around (as opposed to "Maid in Manhattan" which was number 1, which I'd argue pulls from a completely different demographic of film viewer).
Data's death was fine. Maybe it ripped off of TWOK a bit too much (which was a criticism I had of Nemesis, Star Trek (2009) and STID---3 films in a row that went to the TWOK well a bit too much). But I loved some of the reactions after. Data and Geordi's brief nod good-bye, Riker not being able to remember all the details of his first meeting (which seemed very realistic to me--we often forget the little details) and Troi's reaction almost brought a tear to my eye.
Another frequent criticism I see is Riker's wanting to kill the Viceroy so gratuitously and kicking him off the deck (and just wanting to go after him in general). BUT, it was very human IMO. The Viceroy mind-raped his wife. A wife he adored. Of course he'd want to snuff the life out of him---probably more. Any loving husband would want to take a piece out of any man that did that to his wife.
In 2002, I was burnt out on the Trek franchise, so I didn't even bother to see NEM in theaters. Finally, about five years later when the upcoming movie re-stirred my enthusiasm for Trek, I decided to watch NEM on DVD. And the whole thing just didn't sit right with me.
Kor
Kor
