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Steve Rogers and Nick Fury in "CAPTAIN AMERICA: THE WINTER SOLDIER"

LJones41

LJones41

Commodore
Commodore
While watching "THE WINTER SOLDIER", I noticed how Steve Rogers barged into Fury's office to complain that Natasha Romanoff had a different mission other than the one to free S.H.I.E.L.D. hostages from a group of terrorists aboard one of the agency's ship. He just barged right inside the office of the agency's director - his boss - without permission or an invitation. And started bitching. Instead of simply ordering Steve out of his office, Fury tried to explain or excuse himself.

And I cannot help but wonder if Steve was ever aware that he was working for spy agency? Or that Fury was not only a spymaster, but his boss? Let me rephrase those questions. Were the screenwriters, producers and directors of the movie ever aware that as Captain America or not, Steve was not in a position to demand an explanation from Fury in that manner? Not as long as he worked for S.H.I.E.L.D.?

One more thing, just by watching this movie, I could tell that Steve would have never barged into Alexander Pierce's office (at least before the fallout).
 
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Because Captain America.

Seriously though, and simply from a film making standpoint, while it would have been humorous to have Cap sitting out in the waiting area, sipping coffee and flirting with the secretary, it is much more dramatic for him to just bust on in.. So really, yes.. Because he's Captain America and as such, he feels he has a right (whether he does or not) to know what is going on...
 
Yes, that's just part of his character. He just expects things to be straightforward and out in the open instead of all this subterfuge and shades of grey.

Kor
 
marillion said:
Because Captain America.

Seriously though, and simply from a film making standpoint, while it would have been humorous to have Cap sitting out in the waiting area, sipping coffee and flirting with the secretary, it is much more dramatic for him to just bust on in.. So really, yes.. Because he's Captain America and as such, he feels he has a right (whether he does or not) to know what is going on...
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It would have been more dramatic if Fury had kicked him out of the office for barging in. I don't care if Steve is the star of his movie or that he's Captain America. What he did was wrong and arrogant.

Yes, that's just part of his character. He just expects things to be straightforward and out in the open instead of all this subterfuge and shades of grey.

Kor
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Then why in the world was he working for a spy agency? Surely he had realized after two or three years that S.H.I.E.L.D. was a spy agency?
 
LJones41 said:
Then why in the world was he working for a spy agency? Surely he had realized after two or three years that S.H.I.E.L.D. was a spy agency?
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They actually explicitly tell you all of this in the film, you know. Steve tells Peggy that he joined SHIELD because he's used to serving, and because he knew Peggy created it. Thus, they're the good guys. So he wanted to do his part, to serve his country. To protect people, as he's been trying to do since well before he was Captain America. Half the movie is about how ill fit Steve is for the spy game. As Black Widow points out, more than once, explicitly. And as Fury does in that very scene in his office, though more subtly. Steve can't live in the shadows, he wants things in the open. He sees secrecy as dangerous, and puts his faith in individual people first and foremost.

The push and pull between what SHIELD is, as a practical entity, and what Steve is, as an idealistic, stubborn do-gooder, drives the narrative of the film. They're not made for each other. They don't belong in the same world. It's as close as we're likely to get to the MCU analyzing the push and pull between security and freedom. Is it right to hide behind the cloak of secrecy, even if you make the world safer or better? Does an open, honest security policy better protect the rights and freedoms of democracies around the world? Sure, the movie only toys with any of these ideas, never really exploring them in any meaningful way beyond SHIELD being HYDRA and Steve being right.
 
In a combat operation, there should be only one person in charge. If the person in charge doesn't know that one of his subordinates has a secret mission, that endangers everyone's lives. As Xerxes82 says, this is explicitly noted in dialogue.

Have you ever been in a combat operation? I haven't, but I am a Navy veteran, and Steve's reaction didn't strike me as being particularly out of place, especially within the dramatic context of the movie. And if Fury had thrown the book at him, Steve would likely have quit then and there, thereby depriving SHIELD of a powerful asset.

Objection overruled. ;)
 
They actually explicitly tell you all of this in the film, you know. Steve tells Peggy that he joined SHIELD because he's used to serving, and because he knew Peggy created it. Thus, they're the good guys. So he wanted to do his part, to serve his country. To protect people, as he's been trying to do since well before he was Captain America. Half the movie is about how ill fit Steve is for the spy game. As Black Widow points out, more than once, explicitly. And as Fury does in that very scene in his office, though more subtly. Steve can't live in the shadows, he wants things in the open. He sees secrecy as dangerous, and puts his faith in individual people first and foremost.
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Steve saw secrecy as dangerous? Good grief! If he was aware that S.H.I.E.L.D. was a spy organization, he should have known that he was working with . . . AND FOR people who will keep secrets. Was Steve really that naive and arrogant?

If he was aware that he was working for a spy organization, Steve should have known better than to expect Fury to tell him everything. He should have known better that as his boss, Fury was NOT expected to explain himself . . . or his methods. Steve should have known better that Fury was a spymaster who is always going to maintain secrets whether likes it or not.

I like Steve. But like Tony Stark, he sometimes has a bad habit of expecting everyone to revolve around him or his beliefs. In his case, Steve expects everyone to adhere to his moral compass . . . especially those who are not his enemies. He doesn't always express this attitude. But sometimes it comes out in an ugly manner . . . like it did in "THE WINTER SOLDIER".
 
Exactly, it's Steve's entire character to be the blind optimist to the point of it being essentially his biggest strength *and* weakness. The way he keeps rushing to bae...sorry Bucky's aid at the expense of the Avengers, his friends, innocent people etc etc
 
M'rk son of Mogh said:
Yes he is. See how easy that was? It really is that simple. Regardless how anybody else would view the situation, that's jist how he is.
It's a character trait. Call ot a flaw if that's how you view it, but I kinda dig it.
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Oh, I have no problems with admitting that Steve can be both naïve and arrogant. But it seems that a lot of people do seemed to have that problem.


Exactly, it's Steve's entire character to be the blind optimist to the point of it being essentially his biggest strength *and* weakness. The way he keeps rushing to bae...sorry Bucky's aid at the expense of the Avengers, his friends, innocent people etc etc.
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This is a good description of Steve's naivety. What about his arrogance?
 
LJones41 said:
While watching "THE WINTER SOLDIER", I noticed how Steve Rogers barged into Fury's office to complain that Natasha Romanoff had a different mission other than the one to free S.H.I.E.L.D. hostages from a group of terrorists aboard one of the agency's ship. He just barged right inside the office of the agency's director - his boss - without permission or an invitation. And started bitching. Instead of simply ordering Steve out of his office, Fury tried to explain or excuse himself.
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Rogers is not some random employee--he was the vanguard of the most important program of WW2 and in the modern age, the Avengers. His unique nature, belief system & experience makes him invaluable. It is the reason he's so revered by agents in TWS, and even other superheroes. Fury needs him more than the other way around, so Rogers is not going to be treated like some entry-level employee under any circumstance.

By the way, you have seen Stark, right? The most arrogant, self-serving, untrustworthy, rule breaking (until guilt-tripped into becoming a government lackey in CW) character in the MCU...and you're complaining about Rogers?
 
Oh please! Fury was supposed to give Steve leeway because the latter was some guy from the 1940s with super serum in his blood? A guy doesn't really have what it takes to run an organization like SHIED?

It was bad enough watching the scene in which Steve literally told Fury that they will take down SHIELD and not revive it. Christ, that even pissed off my dad and he's a big Captain America fan, like me. Thankfully, Fury had the good sense to ignore Steve's demand and re-organize the agency anyway. You know what really pissed me off about that scene? Steve had accused Fury of allowing HYDRA to worm their way into the agency without realizing what was going on. In fact, Coulson had accused Fury of the same thing. The ones who were really guilty were Howard Stark, Chester Phillips and Peggy Carter. Steve knew this, yet he still made that accusation against Fury. The latter had made a lot of mistakes . . . like anyone else. But if it had not been for him, HYDRA would have continued forward - unchecked - with their plans for God knows how many years.

By the way, you have seen Stark, right? The most arrogant, self-serving, untrustworthy, rule breaking (until guilt-tripped into becoming a government lackey in CW) character in the MCU...and you're complaining about Rogers?
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I've been bitching and moaning about Tony Stark for the past two years . . . especially last year. I barely like him anymore. Thankfully, I still like Steve, despite his outbursts of self-righteous arrogance and his penchant for being a prig.
 
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Tosk said:
What a total A-head.
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But I'm sure everyone else did too. ;)
 
urbandefault said:
I'm surprised that nobody complains about Steve going from Private to Captain in one big jump.
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Due to the war, the military was ballooning at a furious pace, and commissions were a lot easier to come by than they are today. Don't believe me, just ask this here dirtbag asshole:

​

;)
 
Hate to use this really old line but here it goes........

Because it's just a movie. :shrug:

Honestly, after all the ridiculous depth defying stunts that no human being could possibly perform or live through that were dramatized in that movie you choose THAT moment to say, "That could never happen?"
 
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