Stealing Trek Literature

[Deano2099]

Are you one of those people who refuse to open your bag upon leaving a shop? (Presuming this is a policy in your area?)

Sorry I know it's off topic, but is that a common thing? Genuine curiosity, not heard of it before

These aren't just abstract arguments. Without naming names, I know of at least a couple of books that Tor cannot publish as ebooks because the authors' agents, for their own reasons, have not granted us the right to do so.

I think in such a case, it'd be the agents that are idiots. Obviously the publisher can't just ignore the contract. But most consumers won't make such subtle distinctions, they'll just know that either they can buy the book, or they can't (and most of the time will actually blame neither publisher or agent, but retailer).

 

[rafterman1701]

It's not the agents being "idiots" either. They probably have good reasons for not wanting to publish something as an ebook. Piracy could be one reason. They may see it as inevitable that a free version gets leaked online, whereas if they only do physical copies, no one can download a free version.

Also, Harry Potter is not available as an ebook. That's not the publisher's decision, it's Rowling's.

 

[ATimson]

It's not the agents being "idiots" either. They probably have good reasons for not wanting to publish something as an ebook. Piracy could be one reason. They may see it as inevitable that a free version gets leaked online, whereas if they only do physical copies, no one can download a free version.

Bullshit. There's this modern marvel of technology called a "scanner"; any popular enough book will be available as an ebook, regardless of whether or not it was released as one by the publisher(s).

Also, Harry Potter is not available as an ebook.

Not legally, no. Doesn't mean they aren't there.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Sorry I know it's off topic, but is that a common thing?

In Australia, yes. The shop must display a sign that bags over a certain size can be searched and, if you object, you don't enter. A few have challenged the request over the years - but most innocent people are happy to flash open their bag. If the staff already suspect shoplifting the person can be held till police arrive.

http://etbe.coker.com.au/2009/03/04/the-right-to-not-search-my-bag/

 

[David cgc]

I've seen signs like that in America, but I don't think I've ever personally seen someone's bag actually searched before. I may just frequent dull shops, though. Pretty much every time I can remember the security alarm going off, it was a false alarm because the tag wasn't deactivated properly, and they were just waved on by the cashier who just rang them up.

 

[LightningStorm]

In Australia, yes. The shop must display a sign that bags over a certain size can be searched and, if you object, you don't enter. A few have challenged the request over the years - but most innocent people are happy to flash open their bag. If the staff already suspect shoplifting the person can be held till police arrive.

http://etbe.coker.com.au/2009/03/04/the-right-to-not-search-my-bag/

I'm appalled by that. I couldn't imagine a store here ever doing something like that, and certainly not staying in business long if they did. Then there's things like "probable cause" and "illegal search and seizure" that would prevent the police from being able to do anything if the store called them because they'd have no reason to search a person other than "hey this sign says they'll allow us to do it." Yeah, good luck with that.

 

[Thrawn]

^ Well, a vastly more invasive and even possibly dangerous forced search has been enacted in airports. I don't think it's that far off.

 

[rafterman1701]

It's not the agents being "idiots" either. They probably have good reasons for not wanting to publish something as an ebook. Piracy could be one reason. They may see it as inevitable that a free version gets leaked online, whereas if they only do physical copies, no one can download a free version.

Bullshit. There's this modern marvel of technology called a "scanner"; any popular enough book will be available as an ebook, regardless of whether or not it was released as one by the publisher(s).

Also, Harry Potter is not available as an ebook.

Not legally, no. Doesn't mean they aren't there.

Well, sure people can use scanners to post material. That doesn't mean publishers have to publish legit ebooks if they don't want to. I bet it's a lot easier to strip out DRM and make a file available as a torrent than it is to scan and post a book. And the publishers and agents and writers don't want piracy, so they're unlikely to make piracy easier for pirates. They can never stop a person from scanning, but they don't have to make a file available for easy copying.

As for Harry Potter, well sure you can find illegal copies, but Rowling made the choice to only sell physical copies.

I was just trying to explain why someone would not want to publisher their work as a digital product.

 

[LightningStorm]

^ Well, a vastly more invasive and even possibly dangerous forced search has been enacted in airports. I don't think it's that far off.

Indeed, but that's quite a bit different in its execution in so far as the government instituted that one unilaterally across the board and people don't have a choice. Where as if a company did it people would have a choice to not shop there or patronize that business. The Airlines didn't create this policy, so while yeah people can opt not to fly, doing so doesn't impact the creators of the policy. But, yeah I'm equally appalled at that too.

 

[BillJ]

In Australia, yes. The shop must display a sign that bags over a certain size can be searched and, if you object, you don't enter. A few have challenged the request over the years - but most innocent people are happy to flash open their bag. If the staff already suspect shoplifting the person can be held till police arrive.

http://etbe.coker.com.au/2009/03/04/the-right-to-not-search-my-bag/

I'm appalled by that. I couldn't imagine a store here ever doing something like that, and certainly not staying in business long if they did. Then there's things like "probable cause" and "illegal search and seizure" that would prevent the police from being able to do anything if the store called them because they'd have no reason to search a person other than "hey this sign says they'll allow us to do it." Yeah, good luck with that.

Yeah, I don't imagine something like that would go over well here in the States.

 

[ST-One]

It's not the agents being "idiots" either. They probably have good reasons for not wanting to publish something as an ebook. Piracy could be one reason. They may see it as inevitable that a free version gets leaked online, whereas if they only do physical copies, no one can download a free version.

Bullshit. There's this modern marvel of technology called a "scanner"; any popular enough book will be available as an ebook, regardless of whether or not it was released as one by the publisher(s).

Also, Harry Potter is not available as an ebook.

Not legally, no. Doesn't mean they aren't there.

Well, sure people can use scanners to post material. That doesn't mean publishers have to publish legit ebooks if they don't want to. I bet it's a lot easier to strip out DRM and make a file available as a torrent than it is to scan and post a book. And the publishers and agents and writers don't want piracy, so they're unlikely to make piracy easier for pirates. They can never stop a person from scanning, but they don't have to make a file available for easy copying.

As for Harry Potter, well sure you can find illegal copies, but Rowling made the choice to only sell physical copies.

I was just trying to explain why someone would not want to publisher their work as a digital product.

The Potter books are a very good example for why its stupid to shun and treat ebooks like something evil; people want to read these books, they want them in a digital format.
Releasing them only as pbooks has done nothing to stop the digital theft of them. All it did was hurt the profit that could have been made with legal ebook versions.

 

[Kataaran]

^ Heh, I didn't know Harry Potter books weren't available as ebooks. I've had people tell me they were reading them.

 

[ST-One]

^ Heh, I didn't know Harry Potter books weren't available as ebooks. I've had people tell me they were reading them.

And I assure you that many of these people would have bought legal digital copies had they been available.

 

[Keptin J D Reed]

Bullshit. There's this modern marvel of technology called a "scanner"; any popular enough book will be available as an ebook, regardless of whether or not it was released as one by the publisher(s).


Not legally, no. Doesn't mean they aren't there.

Well, sure people can use scanners to post material. That doesn't mean publishers have to publish legit ebooks if they don't want to. I bet it's a lot easier to strip out DRM and make a file available as a torrent than it is to scan and post a book. And the publishers and agents and writers don't want piracy, so they're unlikely to make piracy easier for pirates. They can never stop a person from scanning, but they don't have to make a file available for easy copying.

As for Harry Potter, well sure you can find illegal copies, but Rowling made the choice to only sell physical copies.

I was just trying to explain why someone would not want to publisher their work as a digital product.

The Potter books are a very good example for why its stupid to shun and treat ebooks like something evil; people want to read these books, they want them in a digital format.
Releasing them only as pbooks has done nothing to stop the digital theft of them. All it did was hurt the profit that could have been made with legal ebook versions.

Interesting. For some reason I thought she had backed down on her anti-ebook stance. Obviously not. Time to get the J K Rowling voodoo doll back out of the drawer

 

[BK613]

The underlying truth is, the digital copy has obsoleted the printing press in the same manner that the printing press obsoleted the scriptorium. It is up to the publishers to realize this and adapt. Or die off.

 

[Kataaran]

^ Heh, I didn't know Harry Potter books weren't available as ebooks. I've had people tell me they were reading them.

And I assure you that many of these people would have bought legal digital copies had they been available.

Yep, they probably would have. I had assumed they already did.

 

[kkozoriz1]

The Potter books are a very good example for why its stupid to shun and treat ebooks like something evil; people want to read these books, they want them in a digital format.
Releasing them only as pbooks has done nothing to stop the digital theft of them. All it did was hurt the profit that could have been made with legal ebook versions.

I don't think that missing out on some profit is really a concern of J.K. Rowling at this point. She's literally got more money that the Queen. The publishers are probably gnashing their teeth bur Rowling is rich enough that artistic vision trumps additional money.

 

[James Swallow]

Something from author Lilith Saintcrow on this subject that pretty much chimes with my thoughts on the matter: http://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/journal/2011/01/dont-steal-my-books/

 

[Deano2099]

Something from author Lilith Saintcrow on this subject that pretty much chimes with my thoughts on the matter: http://www.lilithsaintcrow.com/journal/2011/01/dont-steal-my-books/

And despite such a hard-nosed stance on copyright she has no problem embedding YouTube videos that infringe other peoples'...

 

[JWolf]

actually try to work with the customer to give them what they want

So what does "the customer" want? Customers of some bootleggers and pirates don't seem to want to pay anything.

The customer wants to be treated fairly. We don't want DRM that helps to treat us like a criminal. What ever happened to "guilty until proven innocent"? The publishers think us guilty before we've even seen the eBook. We want fair prices, we want accessibility to eBooks. We don't want georestictions when the the eBooks are not available in all countries. We just want to be treated fairly. Right now, the Agency 5 thinks we are just going to rip them off and thus, they have DRM & higher prices. Why is it fair to pay $8.99 for a Star trek eBook that is listed at $7.99 on the paper copy and with discounts costs even less? Even $7.99 is silly. They treat us like second class citizens

All we want is no DRM & fair prices. Is that so hard for the publishers to understand?

http://books.simonandschuster.com/Some-Assembly-Required/Scott-Ciencin/Star-Trek-SCE/9780743428798

$5.99 is ridiculous. I've also seen $7.99 & 6.99 for SCE eBooks. If these had been the prices back when the series first came out in eBook, the series would have tanked before it was even 1/2 done.