For what it's worth "Trials And Tribble-ations" is more entertaining than "More Tribbles, More Troubles," but it's still derivative.
STC Ep. 8: "Still Treads The Shadow" rating and discussion....
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
Watched it twice now. Still like it very much. Can't say I get the criticism of STC re-hashing old themes or trying too hard to work in subtle references as a sort of "fanboy service". I'm a proud fanboy (in the Freakazoid! sense), and my love of TOS is all about nostalgia, so I enjoy all of that (the comment about" a Garrett someday commanding an Enterprise" in the last ep. notwithstanding).
As for STC having more of a TNG vibe, not sure I entirely agree, but I recall reading (maybe it was in one Gerrold's books, The World Of Star Trek perhaps) how Star Trek was designed to appeal to "1966 man", and that is why the characters behaved in a manner the audience of that era could appreciate. Well, its 50 years after TOS, so I can understand the more modern "sensibility".
Since this is my second post about the episode, I may make it my last, for fear of stating my opinion over and over again (who would ever want to do that?
). I'll just add that one little touch I really liked was how "old Kirk" held his hands and arms when he entered the conference room to see Scotty, Spock and his younger self for the first time...quite evocative of Shatner's take on an aging Kirk in "The Deadly Years". I also liked how his initial reaction upon seeing Spock seemed like anger / resentment for being abandoned, which melted away and turned to affection after just a few seconds. Sucked me right in, and after that, I "bought" it.
As for STC having more of a TNG vibe, not sure I entirely agree, but I recall reading (maybe it was in one Gerrold's books, The World Of Star Trek perhaps) how Star Trek was designed to appeal to "1966 man", and that is why the characters behaved in a manner the audience of that era could appreciate. Well, its 50 years after TOS, so I can understand the more modern "sensibility".
Since this is my second post about the episode, I may make it my last, for fear of stating my opinion over and over again (who would ever want to do that?
). I'll just add that one little touch I really liked was how "old Kirk" held his hands and arms when he entered the conference room to see Scotty, Spock and his younger self for the first time...quite evocative of Shatner's take on an aging Kirk in "The Deadly Years". I also liked how his initial reaction upon seeing Spock seemed like anger / resentment for being abandoned, which melted away and turned to affection after just a few seconds. Sucked me right in, and after that, I "bought" it.
Its actually possible that this is the case; they were just making an assumption as to what actually happened. They have no idea that one of the other possible outcomes was the Defiant being spit into an actual alternate universe. It was implied that multiple possibilities were in play. It very well could be that the empty void was the space between various universes.
TBH, I don't know what having an older Dave Bowman Kirk added to this story. When Kirk was split into two in "The Enemy Within," it was an examination of Kirk as a character. But One Kirk, Two Kirk, Three Kirk didn't add anything other than a puzzle box. There was no examination of Kirk as a person. Something I'll expand upon when I write up my review this weekend.
I'll just add that one little touch I really liked was how "old Kirk" held his hands and arms when he entered the conference room to see Scotty, Spock and his younger self for the first time...quite evocative of Shatner's take on an aging Kirk in "The Deadly Years". I also liked how his initial reaction upon seeing Spock seemed like anger / resentment for being abandoned, which melted away and turned to affection after just a few seconds. Sucked me right in, and after that, I "bought" it.
No one can fault Vic's performance in this episode. As usual he nails it.
How do you know that she didn't write it or have the idea for the story 50 years ago? You are very opinionated which I appreciate but not always on point when it comes to facts.
Do you know she DID write this fifty years ago? And even if she did it wasn't PRODUCED fifty years ago. It was produced today AFTER the other productions had already played with those ideas. And so my essential point still stands.
Look, it's derivative. You can't avoid that. Doesn't mean it can't be enjoyed. I did to an extent. But it i what it is, and I'm certainly far from being the only one who sees it.
That makes sense and much better than the literal door we saw in "The Alternative Factor".
Didn't old Kirk's speech to current Kirk offer some hints of his experiences as well as the video logs? I think both Kirks as people were explored. His whole identity is wrapped up in being Captain, but can he still be a Captain if there is no one to lead?.
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I liked old kirks voice better, that his usual one, ( sounds like there is some helium in the atmosphere)
And what was the point Kirk leaving the Coffee at his seat
The episode didn't show us anything interesting that we didn't already know about Kirk, nor did it explore the question you bring up at all. "The Enemy Within" said something interested about the nature of command, and Kirk's own psyche as well.
In STC's episode, Kirk's character also seems off completely. Why would Dave Bowman-Kirk all of a sudden feel abandoned by Spock? Kirk would do anything to save the ship and crew, including sacrifice his own life. "The landing party is expendable, the ship is not" is something Kirk uttered all the time. As a character, Kirk is driving by his love for his ship and his responsibility to his crew. And we know that he'd do anything at all cost to save both.
There's a missing link that caused that change that we as an audience don't see. We're left to fill in too many blanks. You want some mystery but you also need enough information as well.
In any case, the episode is more interested in the puzzle box than it is in showing us what the encounter with a broken Kirk does to our Kirk. Or what it reveals about the man underneath the braid.
Although it would still have been a followup a real twist to this story would have been to tell it mostly from duplicate Kirk's point of view. We pick it up just as he thinks he's starting to materialize aboard the Enterprise then he rematerializes fully back on the Defiant and he is all alone and cut off from the outside universe. You compress his experiences during all that time aboard the Defiant until he wakes up from cryo in the Enterprise's sickbay and then sees his younger self soon after. All along to at least that point we might wonder if we had been watching a duplicate Kirk during the latter part of TOS' third season. Then we get the explanation as to what likely happened. The older Kirk comes to accept he's the duplicate and makes the ultimate sacrifice again to save the Enterprise and crew.
It's essentially the same story, but told from a mostly different angle.
What this story might foreshadow is the emptiness Kirk will feel after his promotion off the Enterprise and to Starfleet Command. He feels incomplete without his ship and crew. They are his home and family.
I'll agree that that wasn't the focus, but there were definitely some moments, such as current Kirk going off on McCoy about the reason he's referring to old Kirk as "him", and the points in my original post.
I couldn't quite relate to why his identity would be so wrapped up as being "Captain" for 200 years (more than half of that being asleep), I'd imagine he'd find a new identity, such as "Chess Master" or "Emperor of the Twilight Zone" . That seemed a little off.
Yes. But in the log tapes, Dave Bowman-Kirk started to feel abandoned before he reprogramed the computer and Ti achieved sentient. So that attitude grew long before Ti gaslighted him. Hence there's a missing link there to explain Kirk's change.
That's an interesting angle to approach the story from.
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I had to laugh a little when Old Kirk hugged Spock. 
Yeah, deliberately evoked that scene from TFF.I had to laugh a little when Old Kirk hugged Spock.
It reminded me of Leila hugging Spock after he recovered from the spores. Didn't think of TFF (as I try not to).I had to laugh a little when Old Kirk hugged Spock.
Perhaps the tech and the jumpship seen in Alternative Factor create a doorway THROUGH the void with openings on each end; a tunnel of sorts that allows direct passage through the void from one side to another.
The story as done *does* make sense, and really *does* imply that Our Kirk may have been the transporter clone, since the lock that was on Kirk at the end of The Tholian Web when they got flung out of the web strangely "brought him with them" even after the Defiant was disappearing for good; maybe energy from the Tholians was converted into the matter used to fill the pattern in the buffer when the ship was flung away? Is that too TNG technobabbly?
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They can build warp drives In the TOS universe but no programmer has managed an Exit Loop routine when illogical data is introduced. Gets 'em every time. I wish Kirk would have done his usual "outsmarting the AI and blowing its circuits" routine instead of introducing a virus, in keeping with the original series.
Didn't he, though? He convinced the AI of a game of chance with stakes, which we knew it would take because of the whole Old Kirk wanting to reprogram it so he could win and the AI's reaction to that.... shades of Kobayashi Maru, Corbomite AND Fizzbin in play. It still felt very TOS to me.