STC Ep. 6: "Come Not Between The Dragons" grading and discussion....(possible spoilers)

[Warped9]

I like how, so far, they have kept it episodic rather than trying to insert some of kind of arc element.

The recent episode is along the lines of what TOS has done before where things are not what they first seem. I can say with all honesty the story goes where I didn't expect based on the few still images that were released in previous weeks to months.

 

[YJAGG]

I like how, so far, they have kept it episodic rather than trying to insert some of kind of arc element.

I dunno White Iris was too much pulling from the past, I think a 1960's TOS would of invented all the past loves and not recap love of the past seasons.

It reminds me of a bit a Stand up, where Picard sees Q and recaps all the time Q messed with him and get caught up in the order of it,
Q the first time we saw you you put us on trail for the crimes of humanity
the second time you gave my first officer the powers of the Q
the third time you made me wear tights , no wait the third time you lost your powers and wait no I got it the THIRD time you stuck the Borg, yes yes that was it anyway where was I ?
the fourth time...

 

[QuantumMechanic]

I dunno White Iris was too much pulling from the past, I think a 1960's TOS would of invented all the past loves and not recap love of the past seasons.

But that's not the same as an arc. There are (as far as I can tell) no ongoing plot elements, etc. between the STC episodes (I've not yet seen #6).

 

[mos6507]

This never happened...

You don't think Trek III and IV is ensemble? Hey, I guess everyone has an opinion, but I think you're in the minority on that one. Trek III is like Oceans 11. It's an ensemble heist movie.

 

[YJAGG]

But that's not the same as an arc. There are (as far as I can tell) no ongoing plot elements, etc. between the STC episodes (I've not yet seen #6).

quarter arc?

 

[STEPhon IT]

I would say they were the principle leads, kind of funny how they became the Id, ego and super ego To Be [McCoy] or not to be [Spock] That isssssssss the QUEStion [Kirk]

In other words, they were an ensemble cast; most of the Star Trek stories revolved around Shatner, Nimoy, and Kelley. Maybe the numbers had changed through out the years, but a group of actors, MORE THAN 1, who share equal screen time with the star of a TV series is an ensemble. Geez, the credit sequence alone should tell it all.

 

[Warped9]

There are (as far as I can tell) no ongoing plot elements, etc. between the STC episodes (I've not yet seen #6).

There are no ongoing plot elements in Ep. 6 from previous episodes.

 

[Zaminhon]

You don't think Trek III and IV is ensemble? Hey, I guess everyone has an opinion, but I think you're in the minority on that one. Trek III is like Oceans 11. It's an ensemble heist movie.

In IV, even moreso.. all members split up in groups and were sharing screen time .. Scotty and Bones, Chekov and Uhura's Nuclear Wessels, and "Berzerkly" Spock and Kirk.

 

[Warped9]

Interesting that most of the few votes so far rated Ep. 6 as Excellent.

There were things I liked very much in this episode and some others not so much. I waffled between Good and Fair. I finally rated it as Good because my criticisms weren't that severe yet what I liked wasn't enough to rate it as Excellent.

 

[Zaminhon]

Where do you rank this in the 6 episodes produced so far?

 

[Maurice]

I can tell you right now why TOS would never have done a "The White Iris": by WGA rules they'd have to pay ALL the non-staff writers who created the past loves. So $ for Elliison for Keeler, $ for Margaret Armen for Mirimani, and $ for Jerome Bixby for Rayna. Bob Justman woulda torpedoed that puppy in the treatment stage for those reasons alone.

 

[Warped9]

Where do you rank this in the 6 episodes produced so far?

For me there are two major things that torpedo Ep. 6 and both could have--hell, should have--been fixed with rewriting.

In general I've liked all the STC episodes so far in varying degrees. "The White Iris" I like the least and "Lolani" I still like most. "Come Not Between The Dragons" falls in the mid pack, and while I really like some things about it overall I don't think it's as good as "Lolani" or "Fairest Of them All" because of those two things I can't presently mention openly because they would be spoilers.

 

[YJAGG]

I can tell you right now why TOS would never have done a "The White Iris": by WGA rules they'd have to pay ALL the non-staff writers who created the past loves. So $ for Elliison for Keeler, $ for Margaret Armen for Mirimani, and $ for Jerome Bixby for Rayna. Bob Justman woulda torpedoed that puppy in the treatment stage for those reasons alone.

OK so that explains why they normally just created back story characters as the went as opposed to making references to other episodes ...thanks

 

[Bixby]

You don't think Trek III and IV is ensemble? Hey, I guess everyone has an opinion, but I think you're in the minority on that one. Trek III is like Oceans 11. It's an ensemble heist movie.

Game of Thrones has an ensemble cast. Pulp Fiction has en ensemble cast. An ensemble cast is when multiple characters legitimately drive their own story forward in different directions and sometimes intersect, become challenged at the end of the second act, sometimes changed by the turning point action, and are the focal point of resolution to said challenge by the end of the film.
Sorry, as much as you may wish it so, Kirk is still THE main central protagonist in all 6 original Star Trek films, with Spock and McCoy less so.
Scotty and the other three crewmembers get some nice moments in 3 and 4, but in NO WAY do they drive the story. They are still the supporting characters.

 

[Warped9]

I can tell you right now why TOS would never have done a "The White Iris": by WGA rules they'd have to pay ALL the non-staff writers who created the past loves. So $ for Elliison for Keeler, $ for Margaret Armen for Mirimani, and $ for Jerome Bixby for Rayna. Bob Justman woulda torpedoed that puppy in the treatment stage for those reasons alone.

There would also be the matter of bringing back those guest stars for the new footage unless they used strictly flashbacks.

 

[mos6507]

An ensemble cast is when multiple characters legitimately drive their own story forward in different directions and sometimes intersect, become challenged at the end of the second act, sometimes changed by the turning point action, and are the focal point of resolution to said challenge by the end of the film.

Here is where Star Trek differs from those kinds of stories. Star Trek has always represented teamwork. Reject the "ensemble" label if you want, fine, but the objectives of the crew are one. They work together towards that goal as a sort of collective protagonist. That's how Trek III and IV operated. They accentuated the idea that each member pitched in for the common goal. This was kind of co-opted by nuTrek to the point where the bridge crew are handled sort of like The Avengers superheroes. But the idea is that the group is greater than the sum of its parts. It's a big running theme in Trek. Does that mean that Uhura or Scotty gets a juicy character arc? Not necessarily, but they might have an opportunity to solve a problem that the leads can't solve on their own. Scotty wasn't called a miracle worker for nothing, after all. This is why, for instance, TMP didn't work as well as it should have, because Spock often co-opted Uhura in figuring out how to communicate with V'Ger. I'd argue that the template for Trek storytelling is to spread the problem-solving broadly across the crew.

 

[urbandefault]

When I think ensemble cast, I think Friends.

 

[Bixby]

Here is where Star Trek differs from those kinds of stories. Star Trek has always represented teamwork. Reject the "ensemble" label if you want....

I tend to accept reality as it is. The parts for the 4 were scriptwritten, performed, filmed, edited and presented as supporting parts

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

You don't think Trek III and IV is ensemble? Hey, I guess everyone has an opinion, but I think you're in the minority on that one. Trek III is like Oceans 11. It's an ensemble heist movie.

It's only an "ensemble heist movie" for the "Stealing the Enterprise" sequence. After that, it's centered again on Kirk, Bones and Spock. Hell, Uhura vanishes for the rest of the movie until the end. And the rest have their usual button-pushing roles.

And IV focuses more on Kirk and Spock trying to get some Humpback Whales while throwing some nice moments for the rest.

 

[Warped9]

I'm going to watch Ep. 6 for a third time sometime today so it will fresh in mind for me to write a complete review...which I won't post here until after next weekend.

I will be able to share it with a few I know who have also seen episode already.