State-run health care

[Kira's Mom]

Premium insurance is a benefit of a good job. Sorta like something to work hard and strive for.

You should have to work hard and strive to have access to basic medical care? Are you kidding me?

Nope. He's not. And he just doesn't understand that you can work your ass off, get a good salary, and STILL not be able to pay your medical bills, even if you have a good insurance plan. My cousin's husband works like a dog and makes good money, yet they're in danger of losing their house because of her medical problems. She can't even work right now because of her health (she nearly died), so don't give me that "work hard and strive for extrta benefits" crap.

If you think people deserve to be denied health care because they can't afford higher premiums, you can go fuck yourself. I'm sick of seeing people I know lose coverage because of greedy health insurance companies suddenly deciding they have a "pre-existing condition". I'm sick of people going bankrupt because their medical bills have suddenly skyrocketed.

There are people on this very forum who are unable to get any form of coverage. Why? Because all the providers, including the ones provided by their employers, reject them due to preexisting conditions. Healthcare is not something to strive for... it is a basic necessity that everyone needs, just as clearly and obviously as everyone needs air. The system in the US rejects the very people who need it the most. And you know... that's bad.

Quoted for the goddammed fucking truth.

 

[T'Girl]

My cousin's husband works like a dog and makes good money, yet they're in danger of losing their house because of her medical problems. She can't even work right now because of her health (she nearly died), so don't give me that "work hard and strive for extrta benefits" crap.

But under national health your cousin's medical care will still cost money, just your family won't be paying the bill, other people will. The cost does not just go away, it gets transferred.

 

[cultcross]

your family won't be paying the bill, other people will.

Ah, the primary lie of the anti-UHC crowd. UHC is not free-to-user unless the user is so destitute they don't pay tax.

 

[Pingfah]

I'm glad we have T'Girl here to explain the more complicated mechanics of socialised healthcare. What would we do without her.

Healthcare costs money? WHO KNEW!!!

 

[RJDiogenes]

If you think people deserve to be denied health care because they can't afford higher premiums, you can go fuck yourself.

Warning for Flaming. Comments to PM.

There have been enough Friendlies in this Thread already. Everybody knows the Rules. Please keep this discussion civil.

 

[Bluesteel]

The advantage in UHC is the fact that there will be a single buyer of medicines which means that the price of drugs can be negotiated effectively. No Pharma company wants to be cut off from the biggest market in the world. That and the fact that poor people and the Lower middle class would have a higher life expetancy is good in my opinion.

I've read some horror stories about Americans without health insurance and those who do have it but find out that they weren't covered which leads to the deaths of innocent people. I personally can't see how someone can be supportive of their fellow citizens dyings. We're not even talking about trailer trash,ghetto "gangsters" here. Ordinary people who aren't poor enough to get helped by the government but not rich enough to buy an adequate health insurance.

And what about taxes? They'd have to go way, way up, wouldn't they? Somebody's got to pay for all this. Remember: (cheap, fast, good) x 2/3 ...

Depending on how we budget it we wouldn't have to raise taxes much. Plus, in the long run, it will help our economy.

Maybe if you guys cut you know the massive amount of money your spending on your military. That could help A LOT. In fact if the military spending was reduced to normal levels. You would have a saving of around $360 billion a year.

Ah, the primary lie of the anti-UHC crowd. UHC is not free-to-user unless the user is so destitute they don't pay tax.

If you read carefully you would have noticed this.

just your family won't be paying the bill, other people will. The cost does not just go away, it gets transferred.

 

[Kira's Mom]

My cousin's husband works like a dog and makes good money, yet they're in danger of losing their house because of her medical problems. She can't even work right now because of her health (she nearly died), so don't give me that "work hard and strive for extrta benefits" crap.

But under national health your cousin's medical care will still cost money, just your family won't be paying the bill, other people will. The cost does not just go away, it gets transferred.

Edit- never mind. Not worth another warning, doesn't deserve a response anyway.

 

[Crash]

Ah, the primary lie of the anti-UHC crowd. UHC is not free-to-user unless the user is so destitute they don't pay tax.

Well, if anything I think we've come full circle with this thread. From the "all taxation is bad!" objectivist opinion -- and let's face it, that idea is borne of Randian thought and is a recipe for anarchy -- to the "fuck everyone else!" we've seen exactly what the anti-UHC believes.

Kind of disturbing, y'know?

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

My insurance at one time was between 400-500 dollars a month simply because I had a few preexisting conditions and I was rejected outright on a few others due to my mental issues.

My lung has not been an issue for over a year either.

BTW: This is how bad insurance companies can get. My dad's claim was rejected because he went to another physical therapist in the same office as his regular but since it was a different person, they rejected it. WTF?

 

[Arrqh]

your family won't be paying the bill, other people will.

Ah, the primary lie of the anti-UHC crowd. UHC is not free-to-user unless the user is so destitute they don't pay tax.

And even ignoring this particular fallacy... the US pays more per capital on ineffective health care then every single other country. UHC is pretty clearly the cheaper option.

 

[MarianLH]

But under national health your cousin's medical care will still cost money, just your family won't be paying the bill, other people will. The cost does not just go away, it gets transferred.

Why do conservatives keep making up horror stories about how awful universal health care would be, when we can look at any of 30+ different countries and see how it actually is?

Honestly.


Marian

 

[Gertch]

Premium insurance is a benefit of a good job. Sorta like something to work hard and strive for.

You should have to work hard and strive to have access to basic medical care? Are you kidding me?

I have no idea how you misconstrued my post to read like that unless you are doing it intentionally.

Everyone in the US (yes, even the ones that shouldn't be here) have access to medical care via a 1986 law.

 

[Gertch]

So... then why do you believe that people have trouble getting mental care? Why do you believe that your family experience trumps the experience of others?

I never said I believed people had trouble getting medical care. I mentioned my experience as at least some proof while the statement made was devoid of any.

Proof of what?

The fact that some people are lucky enough to be able to get the care that they need does not change the fact that there are other people who cannot. Ignoring the problem because it doesn't happen to affect those close to you... if that's what you want to do, then fine, but don't pretend it's something else. And on a related note:

Premium insurance is a benefit of a good job. Sorta like something to work hard and strive for. But if it's too complicated to work your way through, I would suggest finding a mental facility that helps you through all that. Mine certainly did. I was lost and clueless and they helped every step of the way. That's not a function of insurance, that's a function of the provider.

There are people on this very forum who are unable to get any form of coverage. Why? Because all the providers, including the ones provided by their employers, reject them due to preexisting conditions. Healthcare is not something to strive for... it is a basic necessity that everyone needs, just as clearly and obviously as everyone needs air. The system in the US rejects the very people who need it the most. And you know... that's bad.

Actually no. Everyone has access to emergency health care.

If someone needs more than that they can get a job that has health care or visit a charity or church that can help them with the expenses.

Another way to bring down costs is tort reform. Actually that's one of the biggest ways to bring down costs without totally giving up all our freedoms.

 

[sidious618]

I have no idea how you misconstrued my post to read like that unless you are doing it intentionally.

Everyone in the US (yes, even the ones that shouldn't be here) have access to medical care via a 1986 law.

They have to pay massive amounts to get that care, though, if they don't heave health insurance and thus don't have access to it because some people have no money.

 

[Gertch]

I have no idea how you misconstrued my post to read like that unless you are doing it intentionally.

Everyone in the US (yes, even the ones that shouldn't be here) have access to medical care via a 1986 law.

They have to pay massive amounts to get that care, though, if they don't heave health insurance and thus don't have access to it because some people have no money.

That's where churches and charities do some of their great work. Those would be a great places for progressives to send their contributions.

I still like the idea of getting rid of all health insurance best anyway. The prices would have to come down and no freedoms have to be tread on. This Pelosi bill should alarm every real American.

 

[sidious618]

That's where churches and charities do some of their great work. Those would be a great places for progressives to send their contributions.

That's a horrible and completely unrealistic idea.

 

[Arrqh]

Actually no. Everyone has access to emergency health care.

And the problem with people only having access to emergency care is twofold: firstly, emergency care is more expensive then preventative care and secondly when people can't pay their bills for emergency care the cost overruns get passed on to everyone else. In fact, this is one of the primary reasons why health care in the US is more expensive per captia then every single other country in the world... the over-reliance on emergency care due to a lack of access for proper consistent care over time.

If someone needs more than that they can get a job that has health care or visit a charity or church that can help them with the expenses.

You basically ignored what I wrote, which is that people get denied coverage from their employer based providers because of pre-existing conditions. That is an absolute fact and there are people on this board who are in that unfortunate boat. When those people's problems get severe enough, sure, they'll get emergency care (assuming they make it to the hospital before death) and you'll wind up paying for it anyway... and it will be much more expensive for everyone as a result.

 

[Kira's Mom]

That's where churches and charities do some of their great work. Those would be a great places for progressives to send their contributions.

That's a horrible and completely unrealistic idea.

The same people who don't want to pay taxes are just as unlikely to give to their church or other charity (I've volunteered as a church membership/finance secretary- the richest members ALWAYS give the least. ALWAYS.). Damn right it's unrealistic. No church or charity can deal with the overwhelming costs of medical care- especially if it involves long term treatment. Just one cancer case could wipe out a church's outreach program- and I'm sorry, but there are more programs that need that money first. The food bank, emergency cold shelter, etc.

 

[Misfit Toy]

This Pelosi bill should alarm every real American.

Bullshit. America is big enough to contain people with differing opinions. "Real" Americans know that.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

^It's interesting that whenever one side or the other is in power, that's the argument that the side out of power makes...
Anyway, what about a sales tax to pay for this, folks? No one gets out of paying it. And the rich would pay the most because they buy the most.