Socialism isn't very popular here. We like to keep more of our own money. I wonder what that is so hard for some Europeans to understand.
State-run health care
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Amaris
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Well I found this funny, even if no one else did...Wilefires, mudslides, earthquakes, Valley Girls, strip malls, the traffic sucks and so does the smog.
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Amaris
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Well I found this funny, even if no one else did...Wilefires, mudslides, earthquakes, Valley Girls, strip malls, the traffic sucks and so does the smog.
I just now got it. I kept trying to put together what Valley Girls would have to do with socialism until I finally noticed the, uh, missing information.
J.
We like to spend our money less efficiently, I'd say. Regulated capitalism is the most viable macroeconomic system, but, no matter how well regulated, it isn't desirable for all things. We publicly-fund police, military, and fire departments for good reason.
Sometimes - as in the case of health care - a non-profit government-run system is both cheaper and more efficient than a private system. The way the current health care system is structured, we pay far more than we need to for far less health care than we should get.
Those of us who pay for health care have less care than we would under a government-run system (whether the government is merely an insurer, as in Canada, or a provider, as in Britain and the US Military), and we pay more - keep less of our money - than we would under such a system.
Remember, every dollar you pay to a company is just as much a dollar you don't have as one you pay to the government. Why not get more for your buck?
Massachusetts has mandatory insurance.
The cost was originally $100 million and 3 years later has ballooned to $700 million.
Our insurance premiums have risen twice as fast as the national average.
We have some of the most expensive insurance rates in the country.
Middle-class families without insurance are slammed with huge fines.
The commonwealth says it may have to implement group doctor visits and ration hospital care and even drop coverage for some of those that can't buy their own.
Oh yes, there are still people like myself getting health care benefits through their job.
Now just put that on the national scale. That's going to bankrupt us. Our insurance premiums have risen twice as fast as the national average.
We have some of the most expensive insurance rates in the country.
Middle-class families without insurance are slammed with huge fines.
The commonwealth says it may have to implement group doctor visits and ration hospital care and even drop coverage for some of those that can't buy their own.
Oh yes, there are still people like myself getting health care benefits through their job.
The health care that the house just passed will have skyrocketing costs and ruin the health care for my children that I work hard to provide. And it still wont cover all the people they wanted it to cover.
People need to pay their own way and stop stealing money from the producers.
Socialism has never worked anywhere anytime.
Massachusetts doesn't have socialized health care. The state requires the purchase of private insurance at market rates, in a situation in which the consumer has no market power. That's why costs are high.
The two major socialized health care programs in the United States are Medicare (a government insurance company - also our single largest insurer, public or private) and Tricare, the military health care provider. Both are outstanding success stories (the latter, which is paid for in real time, much more than the former).
But it works in other countries. I guess we aren't the greatest country on Earth afterall. France just moved into the number one spot.
Our taxes aren't that much higher than yours. And there are other places that can be cut... but that's a TNZ discussion.
I may be under a mistaken impression - funnily enough, I haven't read the 2000-page bill - but I believe that this is in fact the case.
When I started having fainting spells back in March, I went to the Emergency Room and was seen within an hour or so. Within a couple of hours I'd had a chest X-ray and an ECG. The next day, I went to the government website that lists doctors by geographical region and was able to find a doctor with my first phone call, whose office is five blocks from my apartment. Within two weeks, I'd had an ultrasound and an EKG, and spent 24 hours with a Holter monitor attached to my chest. Throughout this process, they did about ten rounds of blood tests. Another week or so later, they had a preliminary diagnosis of hemachromatosis, which required genetic testing to confirm. That took about a month - which, CSI fans may be shocked to learn, is about normal.
None of which, BTW, did I have to pay for out of my own pocket, except for the initial taxi ride to the ER.
Admittedly, it's taken a while for me to start treatment - my first treatment is Monday - but that's partially my fault, and partially the fault of the nurse who was taking my blood for testing at the hospital. I thought she was going to make the appointment for me (because that's what she had said to me), and so I was waiting to hear from her. She thought she had told me to make the appointment myself, so she wasn't calling me. It took about two months of my bf reminding me to call her and say, "Hey, what's going on with that phlebotomy you were arranging for me?"
To summarize: I got prompt attention, was able to find a doctor in less than 24 hours, and had a full suite of tests including an ultrasound, ECG, EKG, and genetic testing, none of which I had to pay for directly. The process, from initial admission to the ER to diagnosis, took about seven weeks - and this was for a non-life-threatening condition. (Yeah, the fainting was kind of scary, but it wasn't life-threatening.) I don't think that's too terrible.
The full course of treatment will take about a year, but considering that it took 42 years for my ferritin level to hit 963 nanograms per millilitre of blood, it'll take a while to get it back down to 100, which is where the doctor wants it.
Quite frankly, I don't think people who raise this as a concern are really that familiar with employer-provided healthcare in the US. Change jobs or your employer switches to a new provider and you can very quickly find that your regular doctor is now out of network. This happens all the time in the US right now.
I live in Australia and I rely totally on UHC. For my family doctor I am able to see the doctor of my choice.
When I have to see s specialist I tend to attend clinics at the Royal Hobart Hospital nd take whatever doctor I get.
When I have to see s specialist I tend to attend clinics at the Royal Hobart Hospital nd take whatever doctor I get.
No, nobody's trying to make money by letting people die; that's just conspiracy theory. The problem is cost. The cost of pharmaceuticals, high-tech imaging and other technology, the cost of support personnel to manage quality mandates, the cost of computer equipment, et cetera, et cetera. And then there's the salary requirements of doctors and nurses who are paying off student loans for educational costs that are increasingly exorbitant. Then there's skyrocketing malpractice costs because of a litigation-happy culture and often-outrageous settlements. And so on, and so on....
I thought maybe it would be of intrest to describe in detail what it is like here (Germany) We have a dual health care system. It´s mandatory for everyone to have health insurance. Either public or private. Up to a certain income you are in public insurance automatically. Note that there is not "one and only public insurance"...but actually there are mutliple providers..so called "Gesetzliche Krankenkassen". There are about 20 or 30 different ones. The money the state pays for the health care system goes into a big "pot"...the public health care providers get their money from that. There´s a strict "plan" what all public providers have to pay for...plus they can decide to pay for additional stuff. You get to choose your public provider.
Starting with a certain amount of income you can switch to a private insurance provider of your choice.
The whole thing in numbers:
I for example earn 900 Euro before taxes.
From that the so called "employee health insurance contribution" is deducted. (how much you pay depends on your income). Your employer pays the same amount for you (employer health insurance contribution).
Base income before taxes: 900 Euro
- health insurance: 71 Euro
_________________________________
829 Euro
So you see its actually not to bad.
There is other insurance stuff that is deducted for me by law too though:
- pension insurance (92,24)
- unemployment insurcane (12,98)
- nursing care insurance (11,36)
After everything of that plus 1,25 income tax and solidarity tax (4.78) has been deducted this leaves me: 735,84
The system has been in place for ages...and save for some newer problems with the pension insurance it´s working fine.
You get to choose your doctor in all cases. If you need a specialist you are able to choose where to go to too. You can go to ANY hospital you want.
Starting with a certain amount of income you can switch to a private insurance provider of your choice.
The whole thing in numbers:
I for example earn 900 Euro before taxes.
From that the so called "employee health insurance contribution" is deducted. (how much you pay depends on your income). Your employer pays the same amount for you (employer health insurance contribution).
Base income before taxes: 900 Euro
- health insurance: 71 Euro
_________________________________
829 Euro
So you see its actually not to bad.
There is other insurance stuff that is deducted for me by law too though:
- pension insurance (92,24)
- unemployment insurcane (12,98)
- nursing care insurance (11,36)
After everything of that plus 1,25 income tax and solidarity tax (4.78) has been deducted this leaves me: 735,84
The system has been in place for ages...and save for some newer problems with the pension insurance it´s working fine.
You get to choose your doctor in all cases. If you need a specialist you are able to choose where to go to too. You can go to ANY hospital you want.
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Socialised medicine has worked everywhere it's been implemented and every country that has it ranks above the United States, but sure, if you repeat this lie enough it might become true.
Yeah, lots of people outside the USA have been baffled by that for months now.
The thing that baffles and frustrates me is that the anti-socialized heath care crowd seems to think that we, the people, fed up with the abuses of private health insurers, do not have the right to form an alternate public option should we so choose. Add to that the fact that we already have socialized schools, fire and police forces, as well as a dozen other services, and you have a recipe for fear-based nonsense not seen on this Earth since the first cave man frightened by thunder dreamed up religion.
Oh, and Gertch - democratic socialism works just fine in many countries. Your statement on this matter is false.
Oh, and Gertch - democratic socialism works just fine in many countries. Your statement on this matter is false.
Honestly, the whole thing makes me embarrassed to be an American. I thought it was bad under Bush, but since Obama took office, you've had people coming out of the woodwork just to prove how crazy and ignorant we can really be.
Well I found this funny, even if no one else did...Wilefires, mudslides, earthquakes, Valley Girls, strip malls, the traffic sucks and so does the smog.
I just now got it. I kept trying to put together what Valley Girls would have to do with socialism until I finally noticed the, uh, missing information.
J.
There is no "I" in Socialism!
When I had my cranial decompression 2 years ago, my primary care physician (in network) referred me to a Neurologist at Georgetown Medical Center for surgery. Best in the nation. I went, did the pre-op "hey, I'm Michael and you'll be sawing into my head". I payed my 20 dollar office visit copay and scheduled the cut date.
The next day I get a call from Georgetown saying that my insurance wouldn't cover the procedure there because I was only covered in the state of Virginia and since my insurance wasn't picked up the copay, I was billed for the total cost of the office visit. A few hours later, my insurance company called and said that I they would only cover me if I had the surgery performed at some shit hospital in Manassas or at a hospital 2 hours away in Richmond.
So, before you get all high and mighty saying this or that will happen because of the bill, do a little research to see that it's been happening for years with zero charges of socialism from anyone.
Because it's never been tried anywhere. The closest is Sweden (I think) and it's doing pretty good.
Well I found this funny, even if no one else did...
I just now got it. I kept trying to put together what Valley Girls would have to do with socialism until I finally noticed the, uh, missing information.
J.
There is no "I" in Socialism!
You're right... there's two!
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