State of Languages in the Federation

[T'Girl]

If non-humans are not speaking English then why are their mouths forming English words?

Kind of goes back to my watching Star Trek in Spanish (which perhaps I should have expanded on), I'm use to the spoken words heard being different than the lip motions observed.

It would be the same with an conversation where the UT is in use.

Also acoustically you would hear Bajora being spoken from the Bajorans and FS coming from the UT. That could get distracting pretty quick...

There is a scene in DS9 where Sisko in his role as the emissary renders a blessing over a engaged/newly wed Bajor couple. He does this speaking the Bajorian language, this is specifically commented upon in the episode with Kira complimenting Sisko on his accent.

When Kira is talking to one of her fellow Bajorians, she is most likely speaking a Bajorian language, say during one of her conversations with Kai Winn.

Personally, I believe whole segments of the dialog in Amok Time is in Vulcan.

When Worf is aboard a Klingon ship, surround (so to speak) by other Klingons, he is speaking a Klingon dialect. Worf likely does speak either English or "Starfleet standard." And when speaking with his adopted family in private, the conversation could easily be in Ukrainian.

When Deanna and Laxanna speak out loud to each other ...?

Out of universe, yes these are actors speaking English.

 

[trash80]

There was a episode of Farscape where everyone's translator microbes stopped working, none of them spoke any of the other's languages.

This seems like an obvious plot for a Star Trek episode, its strange how its never happened.

 

[Greg Cox]

There was a episode of Farscape where everyone's translator microbes stopped working, none of them spoke any of the other's languages.

This seems like an obvious plot for a Star Trek episode, its strange how its never happened.

I once pitched a Voyager ep in which the UT broke down and suddenly Neelix couldn't talk to anyone. Alas, it didn't sell, but maybe I can recycle it as short story or subplot someday . . . ?

 

[Melakon]

I once pitched a Voyager ep in which the UT broke down and suddenly Neelix couldn't talk to anyone. Alas, it didn't sell, but maybe I can recycle it as short story or subplot someday . . . ?

Go for it! He's apparently learned enough English to read the signs and controls on board ship, so he'd have to use the computer to learn the language phonetically. Then it's just determining who his personal tutor would be. I can see how this could be frustrating for Neelix.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I once pitched a Voyager ep in which the UT broke down and suddenly Neelix couldn't talk to anyone. Alas, it didn't sell, but maybe I can recycle it as short story or subplot someday . . . ?

Go for it! He's apparently learned enough English to read the signs and controls on board ship, so he'd have to use the computer to learn the language phonetically. Then it's just determining who his personal tutor would be. I can see how this could be frustrating for Neelix.

Trust me, learning to read English and learning to speak it are two completely different endeavours.

 

[T'Girl]

I once pitched a Voyager ep in which the UT broke down and suddenly Neelix couldn't talk to anyone. Alas, it didn't sell, but maybe I can recycle it as short story or subplot someday . . . ?

Have it set within DS9 might be better than on Voyager. We know for a fact that the Ferengi don't speak English, now add Kira, Garak, some Klingons, a Vorta, a few Humans and put them on the Defiant or some other enclosed situation.

Mix in a dangerous time constraint and serve.

 

[The Wormhole]

Also, the Dominion characters speak their native tongues and is translated. We saw this when Dr. Bashir was working with the genetically enhanced misfits and they were watching a holorecording of a meeting with Weyoun. Half way through, they request the computer stop the translation and have Weyoun speaking his native Vorta language, which he must have been when the recording was made.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

If non-humans are not speaking English then why are their mouths forming English words? I mean early on in DS9 Kira and the Bajoran Militia would know only Bajora and a bit of Cardassian. So the UTs would translate the Bajora to Federation Standard, but the mouths of the Bajorans would be speaking Bajora and not FS.

Also acoustically you would hear Bajora being spoken from the Bajorans and FS coming from the UT. That could get distracting pretty quick...

But that's just the magic of UT's. The only time I remember a translator not entirely blocking out the original spoken words is the courtroom scene in TUC, which is 23rd century, and Klingon tech as well. Even on Voyager, where we can be guaranteed that Federation standard is entirely unknown, the officers have routine face to face meetings with entirely unknown aliens via the UTs without any distracting double-language acoustics...

I don't think that the UT would be as passive of a technology as is presented for dramatic purposes. Inidividual UTs probably interface with the available technology around them to provide noise cancellation and acoustic projection/lensing where it's necessary. The user likely has the option of selecting how they are heard, perhaps preventing some language from being continuously translated or to provide an amount of privacy. Indeed, the user can probably select the volume at which they are heard, allowing them to speak more quietly than normal and not contributing to the overall acoustic pollution.

 

[MacLeod]

It would make sense that, in an effort to avoid accusations of favoritism, Starfleet would chose a language other the English, Vulcan, or Andorian, as those planets formed the Federation.

Well, short of inventing a new artificial language, someone has to be favored in this case, especially since 95% of the human population do not speak English as their first language, yet Star Trek has always been very cavalier with English as the default human language. If you can impose English on 7 billion humans, a few billions of Vulcans and Andorians should not be a problem.

Or maybe it was not a case of favourtism per say, rather one language (i.e. English) establsihed itself as the lingua franca/de facto language of at least Starfleet.

 

[iguana_tonante]

It would make sense that, in an effort to avoid accusations of favoritism, Starfleet would chose a language other the English, Vulcan, or Andorian, as those planets formed the Federation.

Well, short of inventing a new artificial language, someone has to be favored in this case, especially since 95% of the human population do not speak English as their first language

Or maybe it was not a case of favourtism per say, rather one language (i.e. English) establsihed itself as the lingua franca/de facto language of at least Starfleet.

I might not be deliberate favoritism, but in the end some people will end up being favored in any case. Also, languages don't establish themselves. People do.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Well, short of inventing a new artificial language, someone has to be favored in this case, especially since 95% of the human population do not speak English as their first language

Or maybe it was not a case of favourtism per say, rather one language (i.e. English) establsihed itself as the lingua franca/de facto language of at least Starfleet.

I might not be deliberate favoritism, but in the end some people will end up being favored in any case. Also, languages don't establish themselves. People do.

One case: Aviation English. English established itself as the worldwide standard among pilots, mostly because of the prominence of English speaking aviators and air traffic. However, being able to operate a plane in English doesn't equate with knowing English conversationally, or English displacing other languages in other areas.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Also, languages don't establish themselves. People do.

One case: Aviation English. English established itself as the worldwide standard among pilots,

Uhm...

mostly because of the prominence of English speaking aviators and air traffic.

QED.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Also, languages don't establish themselves. People do.

One case: Aviation English. English established itself as the worldwide standard among pilots,

Uhm...

mostly because of the prominence of English speaking aviators and air traffic.

QED.

Then we agree?

 

[iguana_tonante]

Since you basically gave an example that supported my original comment, yes. You initial wording had me thinking that we were offering a counterexample.

 

[Kirby]

French is a dying language today.

YEAH!!! Suck it Madame Harper! - High School French aside, it would make sense if the Federation adopted a standard language, be it English or something else.

 

[TheRoyalFamily]

I figure anytime you see someone use a non-Western-US accent (that isn't from the Western US), they are speaking English; otherwise, UT: folks like Picard, Papa Sisko, the Rohzenkos, etc. were speaking English, as those accents come from regional pronunciation. Possible exception for the founding Fed races (especially Vulcans), and the occasional Klingon, since we see them speaking English before UT was invented. Though maybe there was a primitive one in use by then, which didn't work completely by magic, since the Enterprise crew was often able to communicate in places that would probably never heard a word of any Earth language, let alone English, though not always (ie, it was already programmed with several known languages).

Also, it seems the UT works at least with AoE - in LGM once the Ferengi got their UT's working, everyone was able to understand each other, and it made it look like they were speaking English to the A51 guys.

Biggest problem with UT as shown on the show was Klingon. Why would they randomly have Klingon words get through the UT? It's not like all of it was untranslatable, if any. And I think at least a few times it happens, the Feddie characters don't know what's going on, like the UT stopped working.

This could also explain some of the lazy cultural stuff naming - stuff like the SPACE fleas, or SPACE pudding, etc.

 

[Vanyel]

Would the UT translate common foreign words. Klingon or Vulcan words that are common and known. Like here we know "fiesta," "cardiovascular," and "dinosaur." Would those get translated?

 

[MacLeod]

True, the UT might not trnaslate words from alien languages that have made their way into say English. After all even today English likes to borrow words from other languages.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It's English's greatest strength and weakness.

 

[FreddyE]

I figure anytime you see someone use a non-Western-US accent (that isn't from the Western US), they are speaking English; otherwise, UT.

Maybe everyone can just set the UT to an accent of his choice?