Starship specialization
- Thread starter Unicron
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No, Vance, I disagree. I think that most Federation starship designs are multipurpose--or have the ability of carrying out more than one kind of mission. In Star Trek III and TNG, though, we generally saw Oberth-class ships deployed on missions of a more scientific or research nature, but other designs were used for likely everything from defense to personnel/cargo transport to deep-space exploration...
Even the Oberths were seen ferrying personnel and supplies basically as often as they were seen doing research. It's probably a necessity of the frontier that every ship be capable of more than one task.
Still, the Oberths don't look like they could do much combat - there isn't even a single identifiable weapon on them. No doubt there's some specialization, some optimizing going on, so that all ships aren't merely up- or downscaled copies of each other. And quite possibly the TV shows would heavily favor frontline multipurpose ships and leave homefront special support types virtually unmentioned, thus biasing our view of the Fleet makeup.
But we don't really see signs of the sort of specialization that was prevalent in the 20th century: of building a ship type for a specific branch of warfare, making the ship as small and cheap as possible for that specific mission and leaving out all potential for alternate missions. Much of that is gone today already, as military technology keeps on becoming more expensive, and a single ship absolutely has to do multiple jobs.
Something limits Starfleet shipbuilding even in the 24th century, that much is obvious: the Fleet is always short of ships, unable to perform the mission of protecting all colonies or securing all borders, so that the hero ship only arrives at the eleventh hour, and sometimes at the thirteenth. The answer to ship shortage doesn't seem to be building more but cheaper and more specialized ships, though - probably just as well, since three or even five special ships might not be of any greater help in countering the problem of the week than a single multipurpose ship. As far as we can tell, there aren't great numbers of special ships in evidence, although some designs may have a narrower range of missions than others. Even the Oberths and Defiants pull at least double duty.
Timo Saloniemi
Still, the Oberths don't look like they could do much combat - there isn't even a single identifiable weapon on them. No doubt there's some specialization, some optimizing going on, so that all ships aren't merely up- or downscaled copies of each other. And quite possibly the TV shows would heavily favor frontline multipurpose ships and leave homefront special support types virtually unmentioned, thus biasing our view of the Fleet makeup.
But we don't really see signs of the sort of specialization that was prevalent in the 20th century: of building a ship type for a specific branch of warfare, making the ship as small and cheap as possible for that specific mission and leaving out all potential for alternate missions. Much of that is gone today already, as military technology keeps on becoming more expensive, and a single ship absolutely has to do multiple jobs.
Something limits Starfleet shipbuilding even in the 24th century, that much is obvious: the Fleet is always short of ships, unable to perform the mission of protecting all colonies or securing all borders, so that the hero ship only arrives at the eleventh hour, and sometimes at the thirteenth. The answer to ship shortage doesn't seem to be building more but cheaper and more specialized ships, though - probably just as well, since three or even five special ships might not be of any greater help in countering the problem of the week than a single multipurpose ship. As far as we can tell, there aren't great numbers of special ships in evidence, although some designs may have a narrower range of missions than others. Even the Oberths and Defiants pull at least double duty.
Timo Saloniemi
Yep. There was even at least one Oberth-class ship at Wolf 359 too. Starfleet needed as many ships as possible to intercept the Borg there, and even an Oberth would do. There were at least two at the Battle of Sector 001, according to a screen grab at Memory Alpha.
http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/File:Oberth_class,_first_contact.jpg
Some ships may be better suited for certain tasks than others. One design may be more ideal for scouting missions, another for long-range patrol, while yet another for interediction operations. Yet, all of those designs could be called upon for routine ferry transport or colonization support missions (as examples) if called upon. I could even see an Oberth-class being called upon for intelligence-gathering missions of potentially hostile forces if it's equipped with powerful long-range sensors.
The unsung civil/logistical operations ships...
In the case of the problem of the week, the hero ship is usually the only vessel that can really handle it. Perhaps the worse case of that was Wolf 359...
But to play devil's advocate in which there are other equally capable ships than just the hero ship...
Personally, I've kind of viewed the larger-sized ships--such as the Ambassador-, Galaxy-, and Sovereign-classes--as being jack-of-all-trades ships. Maybe not the best at any one specific thing, but capable of carrying out a wide variety of tasks nonetheless. While such large multimission ships might always have their place in the fleet (and regardless what the Federation's economy is or if it has infinite resources), the resources to build one very large multimission ship can also be used to build two or more smaller single-mission ships. If the Federation is continually expanding, Starfleet will always be stretched very thinly unless it does perhaps adopt a policy of building more smaller dedicated vessels.
Perhaps a future Starfleet will have big ships (Excelsior-class and bigger) be more a rarity than a common sight...
I can easily see the poor unfortunate Oberths at Wolf 359 doing dedicated scanning and intel gathering during the fight. "Spotters", of a sort, using their science equipment to analyze the Borg. I don't think that their appearance at that point makes them 'multi-purpose'.
While a scout could be a courier (like, say, the Monoceros class in TM) that's really not indicative of a 'wide mission profile' either. I just said that our hero ships, which we see the most of, are wide-missions because of the needs for varied plots. The single-task workhorses, the transports, tugs, destroyers, mine-sweepers, and so on, wouldn't be the stuff Star Trek shows are made of. Oh, we KNOW they're there, but they're hardly getting the focus.
While a scout could be a courier (like, say, the Monoceros class in TM) that's really not indicative of a 'wide mission profile' either. I just said that our hero ships, which we see the most of, are wide-missions because of the needs for varied plots. The single-task workhorses, the transports, tugs, destroyers, mine-sweepers, and so on, wouldn't be the stuff Star Trek shows are made of. Oh, we KNOW they're there, but they're hardly getting the focus.
I think that all Starfleet vessels--including the Oberth-class--are equipped with phasers, if for nothing else, for defensive purposes. I think the Oberth-class ship(s) at Wolf 359 was called because Starfleet needed every gun it could assemble there as quickly as possible. That doesn't mean that the Oberth-class is nowhere near as good in combat as other ships, but I think it's still a weapons platform regardless and time was of the essence both then and at Sector 001.
To that extent, I believe that every Starfleet vessel can be called upon to serve the Federation in whatever capacity when needed--regardless of its primary purpose--but some designs are inarguably better suited to some tasks than others.
To that extent, I believe that every Starfleet vessel can be called upon to serve the Federation in whatever capacity when needed--regardless of its primary purpose--but some designs are inarguably better suited to some tasks than others.
I won't try to convince you otherwise, but frankly the idea that every single ship in the fleet is effectively interchangable is pretty absurd. Are you really going to say that the USS Grissom was pretty much the same as the USS Enterprise? There's a movie you may have heard of that says otherwise...
You haven't been paying attention. I've said over and over again that some ships are better at some tasks than others. I said in my last post "the Oberth-class is nowhere near as good in combat as other ships." The Oberths used at Wolf 359 and Sector 001 were likely only there because Starfleet needed as many ships possible to intercept the Borg and those just happened to be available. Starfleet wasn't going to turn away armed ships that may have a lower combat rating than other vessels when Earth was under siege. Had Starfleet time to assemble a proper fleet, those Oberth-class ships probably wouldn't have been called upon at all.
Yet I still maintain that Starfleet designs its ships to be able to perform more than just one kind of mission (regardless of how well it actually can). It would almost have to, especially when there may only be a single ship in a given sector.
Yet I still maintain that Starfleet designs its ships to be able to perform more than just one kind of mission (regardless of how well it actually can). It would almost have to, especially when there may only be a single ship in a given sector.
Then I'll put it point blank to you. Before starships became 'magic plot boxes', they were modelled, very specifically, after the US Naval vessels of WWII mixed in with the British Fleet of the 1800s. There's where you look for your answers. So, yes, there are going to be a LOT of small, single-mission-parameter ships around. Period.
We still SEE them as late as DS9 and VOY, where such ships are explicitly mentioned more than once.
We still SEE them as late as DS9 and VOY, where such ships are explicitly mentioned more than once.
Show me your proof. Where are such ships actually mentioned in DS9 and VOY? I bet every ship we've seen can perform other kinds of missions during peacetime.
And I believe Starfleet is not an extension of the World War II-era U.S. Navy, although it shares similarities. From what we've actually seen onscreen, Starfleet ships are used for whatever mission they're called upon, be it for defense, exploration, logistical support, or even scientific research. But for the umpteenth time, I must again state that some ships are assigned to certain tasks more than others.
And I believe Starfleet is not an extension of the World War II-era U.S. Navy, although it shares similarities. From what we've actually seen onscreen, Starfleet ships are used for whatever mission they're called upon, be it for defense, exploration, logistical support, or even scientific research. But for the umpteenth time, I must again state that some ships are assigned to certain tasks more than others.
This argument blows. You guys are both saying the same thing but using semantics to act like you have a disagreement. Feh. I'm changing channels. 
And take yer horse with you...
Seriously, though, I'm quite aware of it, thank you.
Seriously, though, I'm quite aware of it, thank you.
I always figured the reason for the Galaxy, which is twice the size of any other class aside from the Nebula, was that it was trying to an ace-of-all-trades. It's an all-out attempt to put every single capability into a single hull, without regard to size or cost. Essentially a mobile starbase.
You can even tie the Ambassador, Sovereign, and most other classes into this. Starting with the Constitution, which was general purpose, but a little spartan for its role. It's replaced by Excelsior, which is four times the size. This ship lives on into the 24th century because it's the smallest size ship you can cram jack-of-all trades capability into. Then, SF makes its first ace-of-all-trades attempt with Ambassador, but even though it's four times bigger than Excelsior, it still isn't big enough to perform any and all roles.
So size is doubled again for Galaxy.
The logical step after the put-all-your-eggs-in-a-couple-baskets Galaxy (which is prone to blowing up) is a larger number of slightly specialized (master of a few trades, jacks of all else), slightly smaller ships like Sovereign and Akira.
I dunno, I kind of think back to some of the early ideas for TNG - that the Galaxy was essentially supposed to be on the edge of Federation space and more out of regular contact with Starfleet, which is why there were families aboard. The position that evolved into Troi's counselor office was originally supposed to be a sort of political officer, who would act as a representative of the Federation if the captain needed assistance in that capacity.
So, from that idea, one could think of the Galaxy class as being a rather unique type of explorer, though perhaps also suited to jack of all trade missions as well.
So, from that idea, one could think of the Galaxy class as being a rather unique type of explorer, though perhaps also suited to jack of all trade missions as well.
Yes, it's primary role is ostensibly exploration. However, the ship is designed to be as good or better than any other ship in the fleet when it comes to defense, research/science, shuttle carrier, disaster relief and evacuation, long range scanning/reconnaissance. It could also multitask any of the above, and fly at a higher speed than anything else in the fleet, with greater range to boot. It's a golden freaking bullet, the preferred asset for every situation.
The evolution of Starfleet ships is as followed: bigger = better multi purpose ships from TOS - early TNG.
After the destruction of a few Galaxy-class ships, this philosophy changed and we got smaller, more mission specific (Intrepid, Sovereign, Defiant, Prometheus, Nova), but they still have a multi purpose element. Just less than a Galaxy or Nebula.
After the destruction of a few Galaxy-class ships, this philosophy changed and we got smaller, more mission specific (Intrepid, Sovereign, Defiant, Prometheus, Nova), but they still have a multi purpose element. Just less than a Galaxy or Nebula.
