Starship Size Argument™ thread

[Belz...]

My evidence is: Argo.

Nice try. Evidence that this particular scene was written under the influence of drugs, please.

Warp, really, all you have to do is admit that you were being mean because you don't like the change. I won't hold it against you; just be careful what you accuse people of.

 

[F. King Daniel]

But it's not justifiable from a function point of view. Making something "bigger" because of a threat is nonsense. An adversary won't be intimidated by the size of a weapon, but rather by its effect (see: nuclear bomb delivered by one plane, vs firebombing via squadron -- which caused the Japanese emperor to surrender?).

I've asked you this before, and you didn't answer. I'm gonna try again.

If making ships bigger makes no sense, why does Starfleet operate the SMALL (Nova), MEDIUM (Intrepid) and LARGE (Sovereign) class ships, all of the same basic shape and all with the same abilities? Can you tell me one thing the Sovereign class Enterprise-E can do that the much smaller Voyager cannot?

And remember, in-universe ships got SMALLER between the Kelvin era and the TOS one. They didn't in the AU.

The ships in the Abramsverse are big for ONLY ONE reason: they wanted the shuttle bay to look like it could land 1000 troops at once. For some reason, the transporter is no longer the favored method of getting from land to ship.

So, one is free to "justify" why the ships are big all they want. But in the end, it came down to one person saying "Hey, wouldn't it be fucking cool if there were, like, 20 -- no, 30 fucking shuttles parked at once?!!!" (homage to the Lindelof interview posted elsewhere).

Wait, being able to carry shuttlecraft ISN'T a justifyable reason? It sure seems like one to me. I imagine it plays a big role is determining the size of aircraft carriers today.

Besides, you're still saying this like there's some meaningful reason the old Enterprise was the size that it was. Could you please enlighten me? It there any good reason why 300m is THE starship size?

No, we're fan-wanking up reasons for why the ships are big, based on the production staff's (probably cocaine-fueled) Hollywood dream of massive starships housing a million shuttles sitting on the head of a pin.

Okay, cos all prior Enterprise designers were monks and Gene Roddenberry was a teetotaller.

Please could YOU wank out a good reason why 300 meters is THE starship size? Why have a 2-deck saucer rim and not 1? Or 4? Why go for the ridiculous Enterprise saucer/hull/nacelles shape at all?? Less ranting, more explaining, please.

 

[BillJ]

The Vengeance is a grain of sand compared to the size of the Solar System.

 

[saddestmoon]

I love me the upscaled NuTrek starships!

Works perfectly well, IMO.

 

[RAMA]

The Enterprise looks big, solid, majestic on screen, and that's the case even if you don't like the design itself. There's never been a starship that looks better presented in the history of cinema.

RAMA

 

[saddestmoon]

The Enterprise looks big, solid, majestic on screen, and that's the case even if you don't like the design itself. There's never been a starship that looks better presented in the history of cinema.

RAMA

QFT! Absolutely agree!

 

[trevanian]

The Enterprise looks big, solid, majestic on screen, and that's the case even if you don't like the design itself. There's never been a starship that looks better presented in the history of cinema.

RAMA

I doubt there's an emoticon or even the words to convey the depths of my disbelief at that blanket statement.

 

[Belz...]

I agree with it.

 

[BillJ]

The Enterprise looks big, solid, majestic on screen, and that's the case even if you don't like the design itself. There's never been a starship that looks better presented in the history of cinema.

RAMA

I doubt there's an emoticon or even the words to convey the depths of my disbelief at that blanket statement.

I agree with it.

I do too.

The design has some flaws. But, fuck, does it look awesome in this movie.

 

[Belz...]

When they light 1701 up in TMP, I think that's the most glorious beauty shot of any spaceship, anywhere, ever.

But this new design is just as majestic.

 

[shapeshifter]

I began warming up to the nuEnterprise thanks to ID. She is earning my respect. When she popped up from her death-dive I felt my heart swell for her in a way it never has for this design before. Damn you JJ!

 

[BillJ]

I began warming up to the nuEnterprise thanks to ID. She is earning my respect. When she popped up from her death-dive I felt my heart swell for her in a way it never has for this design before. Damn you JJ!

It felt like this Enterprise had earned her stripes in this film. She earned being labeled 'NCC-1701'.

 

[137th Gebirg]

The Enterprise looks big, solid, majestic on screen, and that's the case even if you don't like the design itself. There's never been a starship that looks better presented in the history of cinema.

RAMA

I doubt there's an emoticon or even the words to convey the depths of my disbelief at that blanket statement.

I think works nicely.

 

[The Doctor]

I began warming up to the nuEnterprise thanks to ID. She is earning my respect. When she popped up from her death-dive I felt my heart swell for her in a way it never has for this design before. Damn you JJ!

For me, it was the pursuit scene in the first movie where Sulu brings the Enterprise out of warp just within the atmosphere of Titan. The crew working together, the swelling music and the awe-inspiring sight of the Enterprise rising up out of cover, simply gorgeous. Even something as simple as the anti collision lights blinking just so said to me: "This is the best that the old girl has ever looked."

Then, there was the callback to the Titan scene on Nibiru. She rose out of the ocean and the engines thrummed with whatever voodoo it is that makes the Enterprise move. It was as if the visuals, sound design and the score all stood atop the highest mountain and shouted in unison:

"Fuck yeah, Star Trek!"

I get such a charge seeing this crew and the Enterprise in their prime.

 

[M'Sharak]

The Enterprise looks big, solid, majestic on screen, and that's the case even if you don't like the design itself. There's never been a starship that looks better presented in the history of cinema.

RAMA

I doubt there's an emoticon or even the words to convey the depths of my disbelief at that blanket statement.

I think works nicely.

Eh, I like the design, myself, but there's no reason to take that statement for anything other than the unvarnished personal opinion that it is.

 

[OpenMaw]

Eh, I like the design, myself, but there's no reason to take that statement for anything other than the unvarnished personal opinion that it is.

Well I don't think anyone would. He did say "my disbelief" after all.



This discussion amuses me. Did anyone ever argue this passionately about the NSEA protector? I mean that thing totally doesn't match inside and out. Just look at that huge shuttle bay vs the exterior. Totally wouldn't fit in there, and everybody knows Galaxy Quest is totally the best Star Trek movie ever made.

Seriously though, I don't have a big problem with Enterprise being big. My only real concern there is why would such a large vessel be given to such a wet behind the ears officer? 'That's a lot of star ship for a young man.' He should get a frigate or a light cruiser first.

And, on a personal level I've always thought it was cooler when the Enterprise was a smaller, humbler, ship. It adds risk and heightens the peril factor. I preferred The Cage crew compliment to the series run. 200+ crew on board. I don't really know why, just personal preference.

That's really following the line of thinking for "what I would do if I was in charge" though. I think making the ship bigger and faster is a perfectly valid choice. Bigger or smaller, though, the one thing I enjoy in the JJ flicks is the sense of verisimilitude the interior and exterior have working together. Not since TWOK have I really felt like what happened outside the ship was effecting or relating to the inside.

 

[Kemaiku]

The Enterprise looks big, solid, majestic on screen, and that's the case even if you don't like the design itself. There's never been a starship that looks better presented in the history of cinema.

RAMA

I started out in 2009 not liking the design at all, but for the longest while now, I agree completely with this.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Seriously though, I don't have a big problem with Enterprise being big. My only real concern there is why would such a large vessel be given to such a wet behind the ears officer? 'That's a lot of star ship for a young man.' He should get a frigate or a light cruiser first.

My impression is that the Enterprise IS a light cruiser. It's a big ship -- bigger than many of its predecessors to be sure -- but hardly the biggest in the fleet. I also got the impression that USS Vengeance wasn't a totally new class of ship, but an extensive modification of an existing class, up-armored and reinforced for heavy combat. The actual "Dreadnaught class" probably looked a bit more like the Excelsior or the Enterprise-E and lacking extensive automation systems would probably require a crew of four or five thousand.

And, on a personal level I've always thought it was cooler when the Enterprise was a smaller, humbler, ship. It adds risk and heightens the peril factor.

Funny, that didn't seem to work all that well on Voyager.

 

[Belz...]

Where did you see any evidence that there are bigger ships, to give you this impression ?

 

[BillJ]

Where did you see any evidence that there are bigger ships, to give you this impression ?

I just wonder why you'd call a 'Light Cruiser' a flagship like Pike did in the first film?