Spoilers Starship Design in Star Trek: Picard

[Praetor]

To me, the Cerritos design either feels like an older design that has been refit with newer technology OR a newer ship that has been designed to be "retro" and thereby simpler. I honestly can't decide which. In either case, it doesn't feel fully old or new to me but does have a combination of aesthetics.

I'd have preferred something that was a bit more visually pre-TNG but not necessarily as old as the 2290s.

 

[Tomalak]

The ship takes design attributes from the Parliament class, which was new to the TNG+ era.

I don't understand this, the Parliament class was introduced in Lower Decks after the Cerritos. It certainly does look more akin to the Sovereign, and is therefore comfortably a late-24th century design.

The Cerritos feels like a more recent build of an old, Ambassador-era design. Cosmetically it has some newer features and the registry suggests it's not that old by the 2380s, but the underlying design could be decades old. That's fine for a ship that isn't frontline.

It's like how 747s were built for over 50 years. A plane built in the 2020s is a completely different beast to one from the 1960s, even though externally they look similar.

 

[Dukhat]

I don't understand this, the Parliament class was introduced in Lower Decks after the Cerritos. It certainly does look more akin to the Sovereign, and is therefore comfortably a late-24th century design.

The only thing the Parliament class has in common with the Sovereign is the direction of the elliptical saucer. Everything else screams 'Galaxy class family' and 'California class family' (especially the bridge and the nacelles.)

The Cerritos feels like a more recent build of an old, Ambassador-era design. Cosmetically it has some newer features and the registry suggests it's not that old by the 2380s, but the underlying design could be decades old. That's fine for a ship that isn't frontline.

With all due respect, I disagree. Other than having a completely round saucer, there is nothing at all that resembles the Ambassador class. And if you're implying that what we see on screen is a refit and the Cali class originally looked more like an Ambassador, there has been no evidence ever shown or mentioned that this is the case.

 

[Tomalak]

The only thing the Parliament class has in common with the Sovereign is the direction of the elliptical saucer. Everything else screams 'Galaxy class family' and 'California class family' (especially the bridge and the nacelles.)

That's fair - I will modify to post-Galaxy.

So I take it you meant that the Parliament class takes design attributes from the Cali rather than vice versa?

With all due respect, I disagree. Other than having a completely round saucer, there is nothing at all that resembles the Ambassador class.

That's fair enough. I don't see it as looking newer than the Galaxy, so roughly contemporaneous works for me.

 

[CaptChris42]

The Cerritos nacelle and dark saucer superstructure designs are DEFINITELY hallmarks of a post-TNG ship. If the California-class were really older than the Galaxy-class and were part of the same "missing era" as the Wolf 359 ships I'd expect it to look more like this:

...And I would be 100% okay with that, I think this looks great. I'd have also loved for the Cerritos to have been one of the Wolf 359 ship classes – a New Orleans or a Freedom in particular.

My gut early on told me the California is about contemporary to the Galaxy... but may have been refitted. Still, we have had pretty conflicting hints, so far (Including backstage references?)

Also, still think a 468 m scale, might fit screen evidence better? (at least in season 1?)

Meanwhile, the Parliament also looks somewhat newer, despite the registries, again, suggesting contemporary to the Galaxy. Oh well.

 

[Dukhat]

So I take it you meant that the Parliament class takes design attributes from the Cali rather than vice versa?.

Well, we don't know which one came first. We can speculate about the Parliament with its 70XXX registry that it is contemporaneous to early TNG, but with the Cali class registries being all over the place (and even a brand-new one has a 12XXX registry!), it's impossible to determine just how old they are.

 

[Tomalak]

And if you're implying that what we see on screen is a refit and the Cali class originally looked more like an Ambassador, there has been no evidence ever shown or mentioned that this is the case.

Sorry didn't see your addendum.

I'm saying the context of the show suggests it's an older design, and to me it wouldn't look out of place next to an Ambassador in principle. It's possibly something that first appeared between the Enterprise C and D.

I do think the Cerritos herself was built after Voyager and therefore could be a comparatively recent build of a tried and tested design.

This isn't "canon" but it's very much in line with Starfleet building the same ships for decades, albeit sometimes with minor modifications.

FWIW the design brief was "standard season four, season five TNG-era ship".

 

[Dukhat]

FWIW the design brief was "standard season four, season five TNG-era ship".

Interesting; wasn't aware of that. Thanks for posting the link.

Also, this:

The ship is in great condition. It’s a California-class ship, which has always existed in Starfleet — [this is] what we’re saying — that they’re the utility support ships.

This is a very vague statement indeed. Saying 'it’s a California-class ship, which has always existed in Starfleet' literally implies that the Cali class was around in the 2160's, when that is obviously false. It's clear he meant that 'utility support ships' have always existed, not that specific class. So for all we know, the Cali class is brand-new as of season 4 or 5 of TNG

 

[Tuskin38]

The Cerritos nacelle

??? round nacelles are a pre-TNG design aesthetic.

 

[Tomalak]

Interesting; wasn't aware of that. Thanks for posting the link.

Also, this:



This is a very vague statement indeed. Saying 'it’s a California-class ship, which has always existed in Starfleet' literally implies that the Cali class was around in the 2160's, when that is obviously false. It's clear he meant that 'utility support ships' have always existed, not that specific class. So for all we know, the Cali class is brand-new as of season 4 or 5 of TNG

Yeah, I think he means that second contact/support ships have "always existed", not necessarily the Cali specifically. I've not heard the interview the quotes are from, that sometimes makes it clearer.

Although, if he means "a ship we might have seen in TNG Season 4/5”, that puts it in the company of the Nebula, Excelsior, Miranda and Ambassador as the visiting ship of the week. And they're all older than the Enterprise-D!

 

[Dukhat]

Although, if he means "a ship we might have seen in TNG Season 4/5”, that puts it in the company of the Nebula, Excelsior, Miranda and Ambassador as the visiting ship of the week. And they're all older than the Enterprise-D!

I'm pretty sure that's not what he meant. I think he meant that if we were to have seen a new design contemporaneous to the years 2367-8 (seasons 4-5), that the Cali class would be it. I mean, why else would he be that specific about the dates?

 

[David cgc]

I'm pretty sure that's not what he meant. I think he meant that if we were to have seen a new design contemporaneous to the years 2367-8 (seasons 4-5), that the Cali class would be it. I mean, why else would he be that specific about the dates?

Well, prior to that, we didn't see any 24th century Starfleet ships aside from the Galaxy-class (and the Ambassador, once). It wasn't until that phase of the show that the post-movie era developed its own visual identity. If he said "a ship we might have seen in TNG season 2/3," the Cerritos would've been an Excelsior.

 

[Dukhat]

Well, prior to that, we didn't see any 24th century Starfleet ships aside from the Galaxy-class (and the Ambassador, once). It wasn't until that phase of the show that the post-movie era developed its own visual identity. If he said "a ship we might have seen in TNG season 2/3," the Cerritos would've been an Excelsior.

I hear what you’re saying, but again, I’m pretty sure he meant a ship with the visual aesthetics of the Galaxy class and her sister ships. If he wanted the ship to look like an Excelsior, or a Miranda, or an Oberth, he would have done so. The fact that the ship would not look out of place with the others from the Wolf 359 battle (as @Macintosh mentioned earlier) shows that McMahon wanted a TNG-contemporarily-styled design.

To me, everything about the Cali class inside and out smacks of the TNG era, or at the earliest, maybe the 2350’s. I doubt it’s much older than that. And considering that Mariner views a Steamrunner class as an ‘old tub’ (a design clearly newer than the Cali class), it’s pretty clear that it’s more about the characters’ perceptions of the ships than the actual age of the ships.

 

[137th Gebirg]

So, the Cali nacelles. Let's take a look:


Are they round? Yes. Are they also square? YES! This ship has actually taken some design queues from the original DSC Fuller-era playbook, where everything had squared-off nacelles up until the moment Pike's Enterprise showed up in the S1 finale.

Now, the rest of the ship (interior, saucer & forward nav deflector) are clearly TNG-era, but I think this ship might be considerably older than we realize. I think it entirely likely that this class of ship might have gone under many overhauls and refits over the years. We've never seen hybrid nacelles like this before or since, but they definitely have a DSC/SNW/TOS vibe to them in a way that none of Cali's other 24th century contemporaries possess.

 

[Praetor]

Good analysis. I think it's also likely that the tech on these haven't evolved the same way Capital Ships have. The flip phone to the Enterprise's iPhone, perhaps. The tech works and is reliable, so it doesn't need to be cutting edge.

 

[Macintosh]

FWIW the design brief was "standard season four, season five TNG-era ship".

Interesting; wasn't aware of that. Thanks for posting the link.

Which is interesting given that some of the California-class concept designs were REALLY out there, and would not have matched the mid-TNG aesthetic AT ALL. The finished version is positively boring compared to some of them.

 

[Macintosh]

??? round nacelles are a pre-TNG design aesthetic.

But they aren't very round, are they? Only the Bussards are, and they're very fussy, overdesigned, post-TNG Bussards at that.

 

[Tomalak]

The nacelles are very unique, so it's difficult to date the ship using them. Maybe they're contemporaneous with the highlighter pen engines on the Cheyenne-class, when Starfleet was trying different things.

To me, everything about the Cali class inside and out smacks of the TNG era, or at the earliest, maybe the 2350’s. I doubt it’s much older than that.

Yeah, that's more or less that I'd go with - a design that pre-dates the Galaxy-class but still does the job for which it was intended. The Cerritos specifically is a more recent build and has the requisite late-2270s tech internally.

 

[Dukhat]

Which is interesting given that some of the California-class concept designs were REALLY out there, and would not have matched the mid-TNG aesthetic AT ALL. The finished version is positively boring compared to some of them.

That’s funny. The final ship looks absolutely nothing like this concept art. Which is good, because I agree that these designs are far too overthought for the TNG era (while the final design is IMHO far too basic for a utility and support vessel, which none of these look like either, so go figure.)

 

[Tuskin38]

someone was obsessed with rings