Spoilers Starship Design in Star Trek: Picard

[Dukhat]

Sure they weren't anachronistic, no one was saying that. The Connie III out of universe was a modified Shangri-La class, and thereby much more in-keeping with the aesthetic of a Kirk era starship. No one is arguing the ship isn't anachronistic, it had a retro look on-purpose in an effort to provide fan service and memberberries, that much we have already discussed to death on this forum. The Sagan nacelles imo are generic and dont match the look of any of the ships they are attached to. There was a vague intent to make them look maybe similar to the TMP Enterprise nacelles, but with the typical red bussards. I don't see any issue in Starfleet making ships that look retro or simply as a tribute to venerable starships of centuries past, especially in peace-time. As of 2401 there has been no mention of another major war since the Dominion Conflict and Starfleet has never been quoted as being a strictly military element of the Federation. So most of the time technology will advance and ships will become faster and more efficient, but there not a constant battle for tactical superiority in Starfleet as of 2401 simply because there is no need for it.

The nacelle design was made for the Stargazer to subtly imply an update from the Constitution class-style nacelles that Picard's Stargazer had. They weren't anachronistic in that sense because they were just meant to evoke the older design, not make it look 99% identical to it. Unfortunately, the rest of the Connie III was little more than the Shangri-La nonsensically upscaled with the barest of changes from the original ship. There was no on-screen stated reason why the ship looked the way it did, or why no other Starfleet ships were given that nostalgia aesthetic. Even the Excelsior II did not look like an old Excelsior with new nacelles. There were some behind-the-scenes rationale from Matalas, Blass and Drexler, but they seemed more like excuses rather than legitimately logical reasons. To me, there was no logical reason to make a brand-new ship from 2401 99% resemble a ship from the 2280's. Rios's Stargazer did not resemble Picard's Stargazer. So why did the Titan-A have to?

 

[Tuskin38]

it had a retro look on-purpose in an effort to provide fan service and memberberries,

That's not reason. Matalas just fell in love with the Shangri-La and wanted to use it.

Also I fucking hate that term 'memberberries' and I wish South Park had never invented it.

People also use it wrong almost as much as 'Mary Sue'

 

[Dukhat]

That's not reason. Matalas just really liked the design and didn't care lol

Exactly. If it was for fan service and memberberries, Matalas would have made the Titan look exactly like the TMP Enterprise with new nacelles and upscaling rather than from a fan design he was fond of.

 

[Tuskin38]

Exactly, he would have used an existing design, not a fan design.

Still love it though, it's currently my main ship class in Star Trek Online

 

[Macintosh]

Why isn't the Constitution III-class really the Shangri La II-class? It makes no sense to me that it's named after one class but heavily based on another class.

 

[HotRod]

Why isn't the Constitution III-class really the Shangri La II-class? It makes no sense to me that it's named after one class but heavily based on another class.

Quiet! You're not supposed to ask such logical questions! Not when Lord Terry is involved!

 

[David cgc]

Maybe the first one was retrofitted from a Constitution-II, the same reason the Constitution-II is the Constitution-II.

 

[Dukhat]

Why isn't the Constitution III-class really the Shangri La II-class? It makes no sense to me that it's named after one class but heavily based on another class.

I asked that question before and got no good answer.

Maybe the first one was retrofitted from a Constitution-II, the same reason the Constitution-II is the Constitution-II.

No, the Constitution II is much smaller than the Constitution III. Unless you're referring to Matalas's version of a 'refit,' where you throw in a few old computers from the older ship into the newer ship, and all of a sudden the newer ship is the older ship.

 

[Markonian]

Why isn't the Constitution III-class really the Shangri La II-class? It makes no sense to me that it's named after one class but heavily based on another class.

Memberberries.

 

[USS Artorius]

Enterprise G = Shangri-La XL class

 

[USS Artorius]

Yep we all understand that the Connie III is less like a Connie II and a lot more like an upscaled Shangri-La Class, but its a Connie III, and its canon now. So what the windows go from head to toe, and then the jefferies tubes would therfore be almost entire decks, but we saw a similar thing in ST V. We can all do our best to explain these inconsistencies and peculiar co-incidences, but whats the point? As far as Star Trek is concerned, the Connie III is just as legitimate as the original NCC-1701, and we have to accept that ..each in our own way. Those nacelles are still horrid though...

 

[Dukhat]

Yep we all understand that the Connie III is less like a Connie II and a lot more like an upscaled Shangri-La Class, but its a Connie III, and its canon now. So what the windows go from head to toe, and then the jefferies tubes would therfore be almost entire decks, but we saw a similar thing in ST V. We can all do our best to explain these inconsistencies and peculiar co-incidences, but whats the point? As far as Star Trek is concerned, the Connie III is just as legitimate as the original NCC-1701, and we have to accept that ..each in our own way. Those nacelles are still horrid though...

We’re still going to debate about it. Because dumb production decisions are meant to be poked at.

 

[fireproof78]

Yep we all understand that the Connie III is less like a Connie II and a lot more like an upscaled Shangri-La Class, but its a Connie III, and its canon now

And one of the best ships in the 24th and 25th century.

 

[Macintosh]

Yep we all understand that the Connie III is less like a Connie II and a lot more like an upscaled Shangri-La Class, but its a Connie III, and its canon now.

It's canon... until it isn't.

 

[Dukhat]

Its canon status wasn't what was being debated, nor the personal opinions of people who either love it or hate it. The discussion was about the ship's design attributes, specifically why a ship would be designed as a scaled up version of a ship from a century before, and why it was given a class name that sprang from a completely different ship design than the one this ship is copying.

 

[cooleddie74]

I guess the closest approximation we have is the NX-class from the 2150s and the Akira-class of the 2370s and beyond looking very similar, the latter being sort of retconned as a tribute to the earlier class but then using a class name that has nothing to do with the original vessel.

 

[Dukhat]

Point taken, but the Akira doesn't look like a 99% copy of the NX class with different nacelles.

 

[USS Artorius]

Point taken, but the Akira doesn't look like a 99% copy of the NX class with different nacelles.

Yeah that's true. If the designers took the basic shape of the Shangri-La but didn't outright copy and paste the components and created some original assets and then added those new nacelles..it could have worked for me.
I don't hate it (i like retro design style and classic tech in general) but as the saying goes "If you can't beat em..." It was definitely a poor choice to use a late Kirk era starship class and modify it for the 25th century in the first place. Just because Matalas or any of the other production staff liked the design doesn't mean it should be used as the hero ship. If the showrunners or design staff really wanted to use it then they could have done a flashback scene with a Shangri-La Class with a young Picard or something similar, as i'm sure there would still be a few of those around in the early 2300s. But I guess they didn't have the budget or time they needed to utilise the Shangri-La in its original form or maybe the intent from the start was to use a modified version as the hero ship, which again is simply a poor choice considering they still featured an Enterprise F and many more 25th Century ship designs and could have easily picked one of those instead of something over a century old, increase its scale 1.5x and change some superficial details like Impulse exhaust placement. Oh and its definitely its own starship class because they switched out the nacelles for some different ones! I would have been much happier if the Titan A was an already established Picard Era ship such as an Inquiry Class. Even the shape of the windows on the Connie III are exactly the same shape as the Shangri-La and Connie II despite being much bigger and even the spotlights and sensor domes of the III are exactly like on the Shangri-La and Connie II. Its lazy.

 

[USS Artorius]

When I was little (like 5 or 6 years old) I used to sit watching video casettes of TNG with my Dad starting around the year 2000 and when he realised I enjoyed it he introduced me to the Kirk Era movies at some stage. After that was Voyager, but he wouldn't let me watch DS9 as apparently it was for 'adults'. Anyway I saw clips of TOS in the video trailers for Star Trek and then finally watched all of TOS in my teens, and finally DS9. I didn't even know that Enterprise existed until maybe just before the 2009 reboot film came out. So then I watched Enterprise but that series is somewhat irrelevant to my point. My point being... As I watched through each series and each on in a timeline in my head in chronological order of when it was set. I became aware that perhaps there was some intent by the designers of starships to make the nacelles steadily smaller in proportion to the rest of the ship, and increase the relative sizes of the saucers and engineering hulls, to create an impression that the warp engines were becoming more powerful and efficient as the tech evolved over the decades. Then when I was about 14 I stumbled across a little website called Ex Astris Scientia, an incredible Star Trek resource that has been going strong since long before I discovered it. On this site I found Bernd's articles on the various different ship types and also the Forgotten Trek website where I found concept art and initial designs for the Enteprise D and E, and there was indeed an intent from Andrew Probert to shrink the nacelles for this reason. If the engines become more compact and powerful then they wouldnt need huge cylindrical housings like TOS and even the TMP refit follows this rule by shortening and slimming down the nacelles. There ARE several exceptions to this rule, such as the NX-01 and Excelsior, but they both have a plausable rationale - The Excelsior Class was a transwarp experiment and the NX-01 was pre Federation. The primary culprit for breaking the trend in shrinking down the nacelles is definitely the Sovereign Class. There is concept art online depicting the early stages of conception for this starship and as you can see here. The image is broken but you can follow the link!
http://fsd.trekships.org/art/images/dee-2.jpg
It shows a stretched out Galaxy Class with even smaller nacelles than the D, but then that idea was scrapped and changed in favour of a more 'balanced' design which i'm not against in any way, but then the huge nacelles appeared and all that progression was lost, at least in my head canon. There was now no longer a precedent for smaller more efficient warp engines and I was disappointed. Don't get me wrong, the Soveriegn Class looks just fine as it is, but I had a different idea in my head of how it would show its cutting edge tech and tactical might. I expected tiny nacelles and a beefy saucer much like the D. I felt no need for the designers to balance the ship because, after all, the ships operate in space so it doesnt really make a difference. Instead the Sovereign became a sort of tribute to the Connie Refit, but squished flat and with more DAKKA. And now the Odyssey follows the same basic shape and proportions as the Connie Refit. Yeah the Odyssey is huge but the only major difference to its design is the egg shaped saucer and double necks. The nacelles look massive like the original TOS Enterprise, and I appreciate the tip of the hat but in-universe the nacelles would most likely trend towards shrinking as time went on, at least until another warp speed breakthrough was discovered. It just really frustrated me that we went from the D which clearly looked like an evolution of Star Treks look and tech and then bounced back to making ships that mimick the form of the original Connie or Refit. I'm fed up with the trend of trying to emulate the original ship of the franchise and its refit in the Kirk Movies. Just make a new show set in that era and then those original ships can be used properly!

 

[CaptainVarley]

Its canon status wasn't what was being debated, nor the personal opinions of people who either love it or hate it. The discussion was about the ship's design attributes, specifically why a ship would be designed as a scaled up version of a ship from a century before, and why it was given a class name that sprang from a completely different ship design than the one this ship is copying.

It made no sense, it's one of those things that really irritated me because we should have gotten a chance to see a refitted Luna class ship, and it it and the other ships of the time really made not transitional sense from the TNG/DS9/VOY era ships.

I think we all get it, Terry had a thing for TOS era ships but adding an A to the registry after a refit, even a major one was a head scratcher not matching up with Starfleet logic as we knew it, then why have a ship go through a refit where you essentially transform it into a new class when that probably takes more work then to just build the new class ship, then renaming the Titan into the Enterprise, when the Enterprise has been the lead class of Starfleet ship in every iteration but now is a refit Luna class neo constitution III class??? I really wish they went a different direction.