Spoilers Starship Design in Star Trek: Picard

[Kamen Rider Blade]

The Queen's cube is 25KM, not counting the antennae.
https://twitter.com/esdi/status/1654944472109821952?t=M1spwae8mpKHIdyMGzbG5g&s=19

Hmm, I over-estimated it's size.
My original "VERY ROUGH" pixel scaling analysis was at ~103.4 km per side of the cube, not factoring in the massive assortment of antenna’s popping out on all 6x sides.

And the VFX team calls it "the MEGA Cube."

Going back to calculating the size of the supercube...

I've noticed during a rewatch that during the supercube's destruction it seems to start to break up into lots of smaller cubes. Presumably therefore it's reasonable to assume that it's formed from a lot of regular cubes aggregated together. Since the sections it's breaking up into aren't all the same size I looked for the smallest cube size we see during the breakup and assumed this was the standard 3km Borg cube, with the larger units being groups of multiple cubes that were retaining some cohesion.

If we do this then it turns out the side length of the Borg supercube is... approximately 47km. Well well well. What an interesting number...

If the supercube were made of multiple cubes docked together like building blocks it would explain why it has internal weapons. It would also explain why it has such large internal voids if regular cubes were missing or cannibalised.

You were far closer to the actual VFX artists scale of 25 km.

I was way off @ ~103.4km per side, too large.

I double-checked with two fresh screenshots and I'm still only getting about 25km Please tell me where you think I might be going wrong:

Your Original estimate was spot on, your revised estimate was too large.

 

[Space Socialist]

For all we know, the J that we saw an image of was designed like it was because of the ongoing war with the Sphere Builders™. Wasn't it that big so as to take people to another galaxy? No Sphere Builders™, no need for that particular ship design.

Even if we ever get to an Enterprise J in Star Trek, no reason to think they'll be handcuffed to that design.

I quite like that explanation, even if I still like the idea of the Ent-J being an Enterprise of the future (ideally further to the future than the 26th century). I s’pose at some point the Feds will populate as much of the habitable Milky Way as possible, and will start extra-galactic exploration, most likely with very large multi-generational mega-starships…

 

[C.E. Evans]

For all we know, the J that we saw an image of was designed like it was because of the ongoing war with the Sphere Builders™. Wasn't it that big so as to take people to another galaxy? No Sphere Builders™, no need for that particular ship design.

Even if we ever get to an Enterprise J in Star Trek, no reason to think they'll be handcuffed to that design.

True, but it's also true that it could really be that design as well. We don't know precisely when the war with the Sphere Builders began or when the Enterprise-J was launched. It's an equally valid idea that the Enterprise was launched first, did some Enterprisey things for awhile, and then pulled from that to participate in the war after full-blown hostilities erupted.

What I'm trying to say is that the ultimate design of the Enterprise-J could go either way--it could very well be the design we've already seen or something totally different. The odds are 50-50. One path isn't more likely than the other.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

True, but it's also true that it could really be that design as well. We don't know precisely when the war with the Sphere Builders began or when the Enterprise-J was launched. It's an equally valid idea that the Enterprise was launched first, did some Enterprisey things for awhile, and then pulled from that to participate in the war after full-blown hostilities erupted.

What I'm trying to say is that the ultimate design of the Enterprise-J could go either way--it could very well be the design we've already seen or something totally different. The odds are 50-50. One path isn't more likely than the other.

The idea was that the conflict was going on for some time, maybe even since the 22nd century(?). The Battle Of Procyon V was the "final" confrontation.

Though we saw some 24th century ships in there (Nova, Prometheus, Vor'Cha), I'd buy that other ships were built they way they were because of the long conflict. You never know 100% of course.

 

[Saul]

I remember when the episode came out the general idea was that the ship displayed could be the J. It could even be another ship taking part in the battle.

 

[C.E. Evans]

The idea was that the conflict was going on for some time, maybe even since the 22nd century(?). The Battle Of Procyon V was the "final" confrontation.

If we go by that idea, it's even plausible that Kirk and the original Enterprise fought the Sphere Builders in such a scenario. Then again, even four years can be considered a long war, IMO...

Though we saw some 24th century ships in there (Nova, Prometheus, Vor'Cha), I'd buy that other ships were built they way they were because of the long conflict. You never know 100% of course.

Yeah, the only thing we can say for certain is that the Battle of Procyon V was an event in the 26th-Century that was negated by Archer and the gang. Everything else about the actual 25th-Century is debatable (with the exception that there will be no further contact with the Q afterward).

 

[Macintosh]

Sure. It's actually the size of a runabout normally

On a tangential topic, this is why I don't like the idea of "TARDIS tech" in Star Trek. If you can have a ship that's bigger on the inside, why isn't it the size of a shuttle on the outside? Why would you go to all the trouble of building a large starship with all the issues that a large starship would have in terms of manoeuvrability, atmospheric or gravitational restrictions, being a bloody large target for enemy weapons etc, if you could fit it all in something the size of a minibus?

 

[fireproof78]

On a tangential topic, this is why I don't like the idea of "TARDIS tech" in Star Trek. If you can have a ship that's bigger on the inside, why isn't it the size of a shuttle on the outside? Why would you go to all the trouble of building a large starship with all the issues that a large starship would have in terms of manoeuvrability, atmospheric or gravitational restrictions, being a bloody large target for enemy weapons etc, if you could fit it all in something the size of a minibus?

Indeed. I cannot stand TARDIS style tech in any particular form, even in Dr. Who. It's annoying and smacks of magic on a level that I do not particularly enjoy.

 

[C.E. Evans]

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
--Arthur C. Clarke

 

[fireproof78]

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
--Arthur C. Clarke

I'm sure someone enjoys TARDIS tech. I'm not one, Clarke quote or not.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I'm sure someone enjoys TARDIS tech. I'm not one, Clarke quote or not.

It would solve ALOT of Real Estate issues planet-side.

Imagine everybody having a prime Beach House property with as much internal room as they want.

The only way to access the insides of their house is a doorway linked to their own pocket dimension.

 

[fireproof78]

It would solve ALOT of Real Estate issues planet-side.

Imagine everybody having a prime Beach House property with as much internal room as they want.

The only way to access the insides of their house is a doorway linked to their own pocket dimension.

And? This is not my seeking a logical argument.

Magic is fun but call it magic.

 

[C.E. Evans]

I'm sure someone from 900 years ago would consider many of the daily things we do today magic.

 

[Space Socialist]

Just a thought… the Nova Class concept designs from the TNG Technical Manual… The design on the top right could be the Ent-J from top down perspective, if you squint a bit…

 

[Citiprime]

Just a thought… the Nova Class concept designs from the TNG Technical Manual… The design on the top right could be the Ent-J from top down perspective, if you squint a bit…

From my memory of the tech manual, the bottom-left design is supposed to be a variable geometry nacelle configuration (a la the Intrepid Class). Except, instead of the nacelles sitting on hinged pylons like it is on Voyager, the nacelles would slide back and forth on the pylons.

The bottom-right is basically a "what if?" Starfleet did its own version of the Cardassian's ship design. It has the same basic layout. Also, if you look at a Cardassian ship, it's more or less a Klingon Vorcha Class/D-9 Battle Cruiser turned backwards and painted desert yellow.

 

[Macintosh]

Indeed. I cannot stand TARDIS style tech in any particular form, even in Dr. Who. It's annoying and smacks of magic on a level that I do not particularly enjoy.

I'm prepared to allow it as a conceit when it's the product of "the oldest civilisation in the universe" with "a billion years of history" and "millions of years of absolute power" – and on the strict proviso nobody attempts to explain the technology using Trek-style technobabble (this is the closest we should ever come). The TARDIS is the ultimate expression of Clarke's third law in that way. But Doctor Who is really science fantasy rather than science fiction anyway, and Star Trek should be more grounded than that. Having something like dimensional transcendentalism show up and then having no character bother to remark on it is just ludicrous. It'd be like transporters or warp drive showing up in a James Bond movie.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

And? This is not my seeking a logical argument.

Magic is fun but call it magic.

The downside is that there is probably some device or energy cost for keeping that Pocket Dimension open / live-able.

Nothing is free in life, there is always some sort of energy cost.

Keeping a Pocket Dimension of some form open probably doesn't come for free and there is a significant / on-going energy cost that isn't trivial to have your own pocket dimension.

That's probably why most people still live out in the normal world and only extraordinary circumstances could justify the use of a Pocket Dimension where your vessel is larger on the inside/outside.

Remember, the time we saw it was on a 31st Century Earth Vessel that it's hull had the ability to absorb EM radiation, effectively copying modern forms of "Stealth Materials" used in Fighter jets, but applied to a broader EM spectrum.

The USS Enterprise (NX-01) would've almost ran over it because the sensor signature is so damn small that you have be almost on top of it to detect it.

Given the vastness of space, that's effectively stealth tech.

 

[Macintosh]

It would solve ALOT of Real Estate issues planet-side.

Imagine everybody having a prime Beach House property with as much internal room as they want.

This is one of the reasons why the Culture build Orbitals in the novels of Iain M Banks. A typical Orbital has a diameter of 10 million kilometres and a surface area about a hundred times that of Earth. Even for a population of tens of billions everyone gets an enormous amount of space – essentially a small country all to themselves – and it preserves planet surfaces as "natural wildernesses".

 

[Macintosh]

From my memory of the tech manual, the bottom-left design is supposed to be a variable geometry nacelle configuration (a la the Intrepid Class). Except, instead of the nacelles sitting on hinged pylons like it is on Voyager, the nacelles would slide back and forth on the pylons.

The bottom-right is basically a "what if?" Starfleet did its own version of the Cardassian's ship design. It has the same basic layout. Also, if you look at a Cardassian ship, it's more or less a Klingon Vorcha Class/D-9 Battle Cruiser turned backwards and painted desert yellow.

From what I recall the bottom right design was considered as the basis for Voyager at a VERY early concept stage:

This then became the basis for the Altair:

 

[drt]

We saw Wesley Crusher create a pocket universe in “Remember Me”, I guess several hundred years examining his experiment might have been the basis for Federation TARDIS technology.