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Spoilers Starship Design in Star Trek: Picard

Exactly. There is not one thing in Abrams Trek I can't find in other Trek.

There's a fairly big difference between things being done in the interest of helping the story along and things explained in-universe as being that way and always being that way. I'm the first to agree that Star Trek has never been consistent, but there's ignoring minor and pedantic points that only us Trek nerds are aware of and will ever notice, and taking well-known and well-established aspects of the franchise and ignoring them because you don't give a shit. I think Abrams Trek is not too guilty of this. Discovery certainly is.
 
If they are ignored it isn't because "they don't give a shit."

I'm tired of apathy being the immediate conclusion regarding the production team's choices.

What would you call it? "Yeah, I get that this is roughly what a D7 has looked like for 50 years, but let's change it to this because [reasons]". Yes, those [reasons] may be complicated, but let me break it down for you: right there, right before this production team wizard says "but let's change it to" there is an implicit "but [I don't give a shit] let's change it to". If they did give a shit, they would have explained it somehow. They would have done something. The did nothing. And why is that? Because they didn't give a shit. :lol:
 
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What would you call it? "Yeah, I get that this is roughly what a D7 has looked like for 50 years, but let's change it to this because [reasons]". Yes, those [reasons] may be complicated, but let me break it down for you: right there, right before this production team wizard says "but let's change it to" there is an implicit "but [I don't give a shit] let's change it to". If they did give a shit, they would have explained it somehow. They would have done something. The did nothing. And why is that? Because they didn't give a shit. :lol:
Yeah, no.

Implicit is reading malice in to it without evidence to the contrary.

What would I call it? Art. Engineering. Redesign. Things that happen in the real world because people can.
 
A closer look at the Shuttle (completely new design, I think) from Utopia Planitia and below that a clearer image of the tug profile.

LfL89HU.jpg


o1ExLyk.jpg

Beautiful shot. I had no idea the "saucer" was shaped like that. Still, the same basic idea from the DSC tugs, and FJ's tug design.
 
What would you call it? "Yeah, I get that this is roughly what a D7 has looked like for 50 years, but let's change it to this because [reasons]".

I have a feeling, if this is about the D-7 in "Choose Your Pain", that what we saw was a disconnect between the writing staff and the special effects team. Yeah, it pissed me off eight ways to Sunday, but I still have the sinking feeling that it was simply a mistake.
 
What would I call it? Art. Engineering. Redesign. Things that happen in the real world because people can.

In other words, change for change's sake.

Nothing wrong with that, as a general point, but it needs to be done with respect. Why don't you bulldoze Westminster Palace and build a far larger and far more practical building with better insulation and lighting? Because people like it, it has a connection to history, a familiarity. If a part of it needs restoration, it may be updated, but it will be done with respect. The redesigns in Discovery showed very little of that.
 
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I have a feeling if this is about the D-7 in "Choose Your Pain", that what we saw was a disconnect between the writing staff and the special effects team. Yeah, it pissed me off eight ways to Sunday, but I still have the sinking feeling that it was simply a mistake.

Yeah, absolutely could be. But I'm not pinning the "not giving a shit" on anyone in particular. I think the whole of S1 of Discovery, and to a lesser degree S2, was the result of colossal fuck-ups in how the series was managed and run. But somewhere, someone was overseeing it, and ultimately the fact that they didn't check these things, didn't make sure everything was running smoothly, shouldn't be attributed to, "Oh, they're a busy executive, they don't have time." It's just because they didn't give a shit. That's my only point.
 
If they are ignored it isn't because "they don't give a shit."

I'm tired of apathy being the immediate conclusion regarding the production team's choices.
Same with "them getting it wrong". No. These are big and important productions with a LOT of money on the line. There is no "getting it wrong" or "not caring". If there are changes then the changes were done with a purpose and in service of the show and its future. They're not beholden to how a show looked 10 or 20 years ago. No one is. They're within their rights to change things or alter things. This is an industry where these people work as professionals. There is more that goes into creating a show or a movie then many people know or even want to know. People acting like decisions are done with a "whatever" attitude or without care or reason need to stop.

I'm not saying one has to even agree with decisions made but people need to stop thinking there is some malice involved or that they hate certain fans.

Not everything needs to have some detailed explanation on screen. We seem to accept different artistic visions when it comes to many other things. Yet for Star Trek they can't dare change things without there being some detailed in-universe reason!?

I do think that D7 issue in Discovery was a mistake. One I wish they would fix because that seems to be an isolated incident as well. Mistakes do happen too.
 
In other words, change for change's sake.

Nothing wrong with that, as a general point, but it needs to be done with respect. Why don't you bulldoze Wesminster Palace and build a far larger and far more practical building with better insulation and lighting? Because people like it, it has a connection to history, a familiarity. If a part of it needs restoration, it may be updated, but it will be done with respect. The redesigns in Discovery showed very of that.

At this point, the damage is done, and TOS really is the odd man out in the universe. I do hope that someday we get a true sequel to its universe.
 
Yeah, absolutely could be. But I'm not pinning the "not giving a shit" on anyone in particular. I think the whole of S1 of Discovery, and to a lesser degree S2, was the result of colossal fuck-ups in how the series was managed and run. But somewhere, someone was overseeing it, and ultimately the fact that they didn't check these things, didn't make sure everything was running smoothly, shouldn't be attributed to, "Oh, they're a busy executive, they don't have time." It's just because they didn't give a shit. That's my only point.

Are we going to hold every Trek to this standard? Because there is a lot of conflict out there that should have been caught by someone before it made it to air.

Making a TV show/movie is complicated, sometimes mistakes get in there.
 
Are we going to hold every Trek to this standard? Because there is a lot of conflict out there that should have been caught by someone before it made it to air.

Agree. Discovery firing photons from its nacelles is no worse than many other similar mistakes we saw on TNG. I don't fault that. Designing a propulsion system based on mushrooms that radically changes how fast ships can move from one point to another that is never mentioned ever again by anyone in the next two hundred years and serves absolutely nothing in the overall story of either S1 or S2 of Discovery…that's just dumb. That's not just a detail. That's a major story and design decision that would have been approved at multiple levels. And it's so, so dumb.
 
Designing a propulsion system based on mushrooms that radically changes how fast ships can move from one point to another that is never mentioned ever again by anyone in the next two hundred years and serves absolutely nothing in the overall story of either S1 or S2 of Discovery…that's just dumb.

My problem wasn't with it never being heard of again, that is just the hazards of doing a prequel. How many times was the Xindi attack on Earth or Jonathan Archer mentioned over the other six hundred episodes of Star Trek?

My problem was that is was a great sci-fi concept that was wasted on simply moving us from fan service to fan service.
 
I'm not saying one has to even agree with decisions made but people need to stop thinking there is some malice involved or that they hate certain fans.

Malice isn't the right word. Ambivalence is. To JJ and Bryan Fuller, the designs of Star Trek weren't dear, and they both tried to remake the franchise in a very Marvel vein, to tap into particular demographics. That's not malicious, and it makes perfect sense from a commercial sense. But please don't try to justify it as someone's artistic vision for the future of the franchise.

Not everything needs to have some detailed explanation on screen. We seem to accept different artistic visions when it comes to many other things. Yet for Star Trek they can't dare change things without there being some detailed in-universe reason!?

Not at all. When the K't'inga shows up in TMP, it looks different from the D7 in TOS, but I don't think that needs explanation. It looks better than the D7 in TOS. I have no problem imagining that it is a D7, that that's how it always looked. That's not the same as having Klingons that look nothing like any Klingons we've ever seen before. And Klingon ships that look nothing like what we've seen before. And uniforms that look like nothing we've seen before. And holographic projections that are like nothing we've seen before (in the era). And mysterious telepathic powers for Vulcans that we've never seen before that don't make any sense with respect to many stories we've seen before that would've been useful. And a magical spore drive that we've never heard about again, even if it does eventually get destroyed. These are not artistic changes. These are hardcore reboots. Reboots, by definition, are about erasing what's come before and putting your own bible in place. Why can't people who like that stuff that came before be legitimately upset about that? On a Star Trek forum. God forbid.

I do think that D7 issue in Discovery was a mistake. One I wish they would fix because that seems to be an isolated incident as well. Mistakes do happen too.

It was probably just a mistake. I'm not too bothered by it. Thee are so many other mistakes, though, that in aggregate it makes it a show that many of us are saddened by. Yes, we can fuck off and not watch it. But that's a little bit like telling people, "Hey! You hate Trump? Then go live somewhere else." Not very constructive. If you hate Trump, you should stay, and work to vote him out of office. If you think Discovery isn't good storytelling, and is pointlessly revising everything in-universe just for the sake of change and no other good reason, then speak out. And we did speak out, and I think they heard us, which is why S2 of Discovery tries so hard to undo those many changes (which Discovery apologists nonetheless continue to defend), and why S3 of Discovery seems to be set so far in the future (which is where so many fans back in the day wished th next iteration of Trek would be set). And I also think it was a big catalyst behind Picard.
 
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