The Countdown comic that established that backstory was originally supposed to be. Then it wasn’t.
Spoilers Starship Design in Star Trek: Picard
- Thread starter pst
- Start date
It was never canon, that is a misconception.
It came from an interview where Roberto Orci was goaded into saying it was canon, when earlier he said it wasn't up to him.
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_Countdown#Background_information
Shortened summary of that particular exchange:
TrekMovie: "Star Trek: Countdown" is not a promotional thing, that is a…. thing thing. Your name, JJ’s name is on it and Alex’s name is on it. So canon or not canon?
Roberto Orci: I don’t think that is for me to decide. [...] I am not going to declare whether comics are canon.
TrekMovie: Who makes that decision?
Roberto Orci: I don’t know, I think it will be a majority vote.
TrekMovie: Well I can run poll, but I was looking for something more official.
Roberto Orci: Why don’t we say for now, that this current court has not taken up that case and it can yet rule.
(later)
Roberto Orci: I arrived in Star Trek where the rules of what is canon had already been established.
TrekMovie.com: Yes, but some of the exceptions were that extended universe things done by creators of filmed canon were also canon. [...] So in your case it would mean that everything in the game, comic books, etc you have overseen, like "Star Trek Countdown" for example, is canon except for anything that was contradicted by the movies. I thought that would be an interesting model and the difference with previous Trek is that you guys are overseeing all of this. [...] I think a lot of fans would like to hear you say, "yes these are all the adventures of Kirk, Spock and the gang and it is all canon and all ties together into a single universe." [...] That’s my pitch to you.
Roberto Orci: OK, based on that then with you Anthony Pascale as a witness, I hereby declare anything that we oversee to be canon.
TrekMovie.com: OK! Do we need to get that in writing? Do we need to get the ghost of Gene Roddenberry to notarize this?
Roberto Orci: Let’s call his son Rod, I’ve got him on speed dial.
(sources in links above)
So it was:
- But it's a thing thing and thing things should be canon!
- I won't decide that.
- Need something official!
- It is undecided.
- Please say it is canon!
- Ok, then I say it is all canon.
TrekMovie: "Star Trek: Countdown" is not a promotional thing, that is a…. thing thing. Your name, JJ’s name is on it and Alex’s name is on it. So canon or not canon?
Roberto Orci: I don’t think that is for me to decide. [...] I am not going to declare whether comics are canon.
TrekMovie: Who makes that decision?
Roberto Orci: I don’t know, I think it will be a majority vote.
TrekMovie: Well I can run poll, but I was looking for something more official.
Roberto Orci: Why don’t we say for now, that this current court has not taken up that case and it can yet rule.
(later)
Roberto Orci: I arrived in Star Trek where the rules of what is canon had already been established.
TrekMovie.com: Yes, but some of the exceptions were that extended universe things done by creators of filmed canon were also canon. [...] So in your case it would mean that everything in the game, comic books, etc you have overseen, like "Star Trek Countdown" for example, is canon except for anything that was contradicted by the movies. I thought that would be an interesting model and the difference with previous Trek is that you guys are overseeing all of this. [...] I think a lot of fans would like to hear you say, "yes these are all the adventures of Kirk, Spock and the gang and it is all canon and all ties together into a single universe." [...] That’s my pitch to you.
Roberto Orci: OK, based on that then with you Anthony Pascale as a witness, I hereby declare anything that we oversee to be canon.
TrekMovie.com: OK! Do we need to get that in writing? Do we need to get the ghost of Gene Roddenberry to notarize this?
Roberto Orci: Let’s call his son Rod, I’ve got him on speed dial.
(sources in links above)
So it was:
- But it's a thing thing and thing things should be canon!
- I won't decide that.
- Need something official!
- It is undecided.
- Please say it is canon!
- Ok, then I say it is all canon.
Canon doesn't have any practical use except to make fans angry.
Because...
...making something "canon" does not mean the creators have to respect it in future. They'll contradict canon when convenient - they always have - and Trek continuity is shot through with holes and inconsistencies.
Because...
...making something "canon" does not mean the creators have to respect it in future. They'll contradict canon when convenient - they always have - and Trek continuity is shot through with holes and inconsistencies.
Well that's clear as mud. Was it canon? No position to say it was. Could be considered canon, though. Then implied it wasn't, then it was.
Countdown was a fun comic and the Narada using Borg technology remains my head canon, but man, does a lot of the content of that comic not hold up now that we know what happened to Picard, B4 and the Enterprise-E after NEM.
Even though I used to collect Star Trek comics religiously, I always regarded Countdown--either for Star Trek '09 or Picard--with a grain of salt. There were those that regarded IDW's entire run of Star Trek comics set after '09 as being canon because Orci was credited as a consultant, but even then the comics were never treated as gospel by those producing new onscreen material (in the comics, Kirk lost a number of crewmembers after officially becoming captain of the Enterprise while in the later Star Trek Into Darkness he clearly stated he hadn't lost a single one).
I'd love it if a Star Trek multiverse idea played a more dominant role in Trek tie-ins. Imagine the shenagigans if the 2387 Enterprise-E from Countdown ran into the 2384 Enterprise-E from Prodigy! And then have a side-trip to meet the Enterprise-D during its service as Federation flagship from 2401 to 2402!
It should not be an either or situation. Remove ten seconds of someone walking down a corridor or pausing at an open door before entering- you add a single sentence easily.
On the other hand, removing any reference to the Enterprise E would have gotten more people upset I think.
Referencing what happened to the Enterprise-E wasn't the problem. Making that reference a dumb joke that didn't actually explain what happened to the ship was the problem. If it was just some random ship, it wouldn't have been that big a deal. But this was an Enterprise. We'd seen 3 films of its journeys, and I'd think fans of the ship would have liked to either see it again or have some nice closure to what happened to it more than a dumb one-off joke at Worf's expense.
The Duderstadt Class becomes a playable ship in Star Trek Online on 23 January 2024. This is the first time that the name Duderstadt class is used by a licensed source (instead of just production material).
It establishes that the class remains in service as of 2411.
It is classed as a miracle-worker science-spearhead. Science spearheads are essentially combat oriented science vessels, i.e. science destroyers.
I think it's a well thought-out design. It looks good especially on its top half. The way how the classic elements nacelles/saucer/secondary hull connect is original...but I don't like the look of how the secondary hull connects, so I'll give this ship a pass in game.
It establishes that the class remains in service as of 2411.
It is classed as a miracle-worker science-spearhead. Science spearheads are essentially combat oriented science vessels, i.e. science destroyers.
I think it's a well thought-out design. It looks good especially on its top half. The way how the classic elements nacelles/saucer/secondary hull connect is original...but I don't like the look of how the secondary hull connects, so I'll give this ship a pass in game.
I like it more than I like the Titan-A/Enterprise-G. It actually looks like it belongs in the early 25th century.
It's another Krausse design, based on his Wasp-class fighter carrier model, tracing its lineage back to the old Hornet-class fighter carrier by Lawrence Miller (1985 w/ 2003 reprint). I like it a lot! 
Bill's model:
Original Miller schematics:
Bill's model:
Original Miller schematics:
Agreed. The saucer alone is a vast improvement. And at least it's a somewhat original take on the traditional saucer-secondary-nacelles arrangement.
It's another Krausse design, based on his Wasp-class fighter carrier model, tracing its lineage back to the old Hornet-class fighter carrier by Lawrence Miller (1985 w/ 2003 reprint). I like it a lot!
Bill's model:
View attachment 38273
Original Miller schematics:
View attachment 38274
Krause also posted a hypothetical design lineage going all the way back to the 2250s. The Wasp-class was the original submission of the design that became the Duderstadt, hence the (hugely superior IMHO) Sovereign-style nacelles.
Shortened summary of that particular exchange:
TrekMovie: "Star Trek: Countdown" is not a promotional thing, that is a…. thing thing. Your name, JJ’s name is on it and Alex’s name is on it. So canon or not canon?
Roberto Orci: I don’t think that is for me to decide. [...] I am not going to declare whether comics are canon.
TrekMovie: Who makes that decision?
Roberto Orci: I don’t know, I think it will be a majority vote.
TrekMovie: Well I can run poll, but I was looking for something more official.
Roberto Orci: Why don’t we say for now, that this current court has not taken up that case and it can yet rule.
(later)
Roberto Orci: I arrived in Star Trek where the rules of what is canon had already been established.
TrekMovie.com: Yes, but some of the exceptions were that extended universe things done by creators of filmed canon were also canon. [...] So in your case it would mean that everything in the game, comic books, etc you have overseen, like "Star Trek Countdown" for example, is canon except for anything that was contradicted by the movies. I thought that would be an interesting model and the difference with previous Trek is that you guys are overseeing all of this. [...] I think a lot of fans would like to hear you say, "yes these are all the adventures of Kirk, Spock and the gang and it is all canon and all ties together into a single universe." [...] That’s my pitch to you.
Roberto Orci: OK, based on that then with you Anthony Pascale as a witness, I hereby declare anything that we oversee to be canon.
TrekMovie.com: OK! Do we need to get that in writing? Do we need to get the ghost of Gene Roddenberry to notarize this?
Roberto Orci: Let’s call his son Rod, I’ve got him on speed dial.
(sources in links above)
So it was:
- But it's a thing thing and thing things should be canon!
- I won't decide that.
- Need something official!
- It is undecided.
- Please say it is canon!
- Ok, then I say it is all canon.
Basically that Anthony guy from Trekmovie was being a pushy asshole and was trying to get Orci to say what he wanted him to say. And Orci did, just to shut the guy up, and then immediately redacted what he said to Anthony later, because he never meant it in the first place.
The only thing I don't like about the Duderstadt is that I think the saucer should be more elliptical like the Sovereign and Sagan, rather than completely round, based on the design attributes of the era.
The original concept did have an elliptical saucer, albeit one that is less elliptical than a Sovereign. Still more elliptical than the one they went with though.
I personally have a theory that whatever is left of the Enterprise E was in the main docking bay of the museum. Unlike a Galaxy class, a Sovereign isnt much wider than an Excelsior class. And depending on you fan calculation, might just get through the doors of the original Spacedock.
Now, with the Enterprise D restored and ready as a museum ship, Geordi can now work on rebuilding the E with his staff for maybe a decade or two? Might be easier since there are alot of Sovereign class parts post Frontier day...
Now, with the Enterprise D restored and ready as a museum ship, Geordi can now work on rebuilding the E with his staff for maybe a decade or two? Might be easier since there are alot of Sovereign class parts post Frontier day...
What did he do?
