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Starship design history in light of Discovery

137th Gebirg said:
That may be a case of foreshortening/perspective distortion, depending on the angle, but yeah
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Well, it decloaked right in front of the camera in roughly the same area of space Discovery was a few seconds earlier, it was a single shot, the camera didn't appear to be moving.

But I have no reason to doubt any of the numbers that eaglemoss gives. Except maybe the D7. Cryptic (Star Trek Online) said CBS didn't give them a size for the D7, so they scaled it to the DSC Connie the same way the TOS D7 compares to the TOS Connie.

I don't know where Eaglemoss got that number, I guess they used the scale in the 3D asset file, or CBS came up with a size after Cryptic had already made their's.
 
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IIRC, the Zheng-he size numbers came up a bit wonky last year, but yeah, Eaglemoss has been pretty good about ship sizes in general.
 
It's not idly that I discredit the numbers on that comparison chart. Taking the whole fight with the Gagarin in account, the Qugh gets put to proper context and scale, and it's not dwarfing either of the Starfleet vessels in those shots where Starfleet gets the foreground and the background.

The same goes for the S31 ships: the onscreen scale simply varies, and that's what matters, not some secret numbers in some chart that either gets misused or then goes unused.

Ships that don't appear in a context can go either way, and generally there's no reason to doubt the numbers, any numbers, then. But DSC seldom fails to give us the context. The exact size of Sarek's little ship is known from a perfect side shot pitting her against Sarek's own tall frame, say, and discredits certain guesses outright.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Timo said:
No, what is quoted on that diagram is different from what is seen on screen, is the point. The S31 ships aren't twice as big as Pike's, not even the larger ones. The Qugh isn't a giant. The "real" sizes are a feature of having the ships share the same space, and for some reason the measurements the CGI folks punch in do not produce ships that would be as big as the diagram suggests.
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Sorry, I only click on Trek-related videos.

If you disagree with what is on screen, fine. If the disagreement is on more fundamental grounds, I can't be bothered. What's there is Star Trek. The rest is backstage intrigue; potentially fun, but not the real deal, and ultimately forgotten rather than rerun.

Timo Saloniemi
 
You can’t trust what you see on screen. Artists/directors fudges sizes all the time for dramatic reasons.

If we trust everything on screen, then the Defiant can apparently shrink and grow at will.

Or the Kelvin Connie.
 
And Batman's fists make colorful KAPOW!!!s. I don't have a real problem with it. But if there for some reason emerges a need to nail down a size, numbers from CGI department sheets or pieces of plastic on a shelf aren't it, and a best fit to what is actually seen will be decisive.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Tuskin38 said:
You can’t trust what you see on screen. Artists/directors fudges sizes all the time for dramatic reasons.

If we trust everything on screen, then the Defiant can apparently shrink and grow at will.

Or the Kelvin Connie.
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Or Zefram Cochrane.
 
I had an idea about the seemingly endless stock of shuttlecraft that can now fit on starfleet ships as seen in various season enders...

What if these are not only pilotless, but little more than decoys -- baloons with gravboots and a phaser attached?

Of course, post turbolift guts ride, we're not looking for things to make sense.
 
I prefer to see them as man-sized drones with weapons and sensor points on their hulls. Anything bigger and it just becomes ridiculous.

And this is a series that thinks a 400-meter starship has a vast, hollow interior the size of an aircraft carrier.
 
Well, one of those may well have been a carrier originally, what with that wide but oddly shallow aft bay of hers, and the multiple turntables and elevators and launch tubes and whatnot. Installing of random science experiments within might have left most of the former space unused, or the failed experiments could have been cleared out once the spore drive project succeeded.

It's only Pike's ship, with her somewhat smaller secondary hull, that might ill work as a carrier. But we have already seen one reality where the lower cigar is largely hollow, in TMP. We haven't seen the configuration Pike has when launching his armada of shuttles in "Sorrow II", only a couple of Kirk's when he does no such launching. And "configurations of NCC-1701" is a volume so thick that it probably requires the same sort of technology as those turboshafts in order to fit on any shelf.

Timo Saloniemi
 
This thread has gone off topic. The reason the discovery ships are given different sizes is simple. They have changed the scale. You can divide the new ship sizes by
221000/144323 to find their sizes using the old scale

any discrepancies regarding decks etc can be explained that the federation uses “federation meters” which are Longer than earth meters. (Maybe the discovery scale is using earth meters). This would alsoexplain the Oberth classproblem if we admit that the federation uses a different meter scale.

FM= federation Meters

Kelvin type: 315 FM (approx)


Constitution class: 288.646 FM


Walker class: 276.499 FM


Cardenas class: 287.797 FM


Crossfield class: 490.11 FM


Engle class: 253.186 FM


Hiawatha class: 391.501 FM


Hoover class: 232.68 FM


Magee class: 147.066 FM


Malachowski class: 180.894 FM


Nimitz class: 250.312 FM


Shephard class: 330.114 FM
 
Ronald Held said:
If so, when did Federation Standard units deviate from Earth metric units?
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Most likely after the Federation was formed. Even discovery uses the old scale in-universe, as a schematic shows the Enterprise with the 288m size. It’s just out of Universe Eaglemoss uses a different scale for discovery ships. If we use Federation meters, then for all we know the bridge windows fit perfectly with the sizes in federation meters, just not with Earth meters. Also if the Oberth measurement were in earth meters the turbo lifts wouldn’t fit in the pylons. As long as we assume federation meters are longer than earth ones., and the discovery eaglemoss sizesout of universe were given using a different scale (possibly earth meters, probably a third scale)
 
All this talk about Federation metrics being greater than earth metrics makes me wonder if all the dudes in the Federation are claiming that they have 24 federation inch wangs
 
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