Starship design history in light of Discovery

[Timo]

...Or then "exploration" is just the going term for deep reconnaissance, and acknowledgment of the fact that in Star Trek, the things that threaten your civilization the most come from "outside the galaxy" or otherwise from beyond the rim of the known. A defensive alliance that doesn't perform aggressive deep recce isn't doing its job properly.

If further alliances are gained in addition to the intel, all the better. But expansion isn't a necessary byproduct of exploration of the Starfleet sort.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[cooleddie74]

Didn't the writers and creators once say that the Federation was founded as a direct response to the devastation of the Earth-Romulan War and a bulwark to prevent such a blood-soaked conflict from happening again? The Coalition of Planets was at most a loose association and a mutual defense pact between four species who saw the growing Romulan threat as a potential problem for all of the member worlds.

After the war ended the Coalition decided to band together even closer for maximum interstellar security and to remind the Romulans - now hiding behind the Neutral Zone - that if they ever try again they'll be met with an even more united and powerful front and armed response. It was a natural evolution of a prewar and wartime alliance that saw the four species learn that they could indeed fight and win a conflict together and trust one another, a major development in particular for the Vulcans and Andorians who had spent about a century at one another's throat.

 

[Christopher]

Didn't the writers and creators once say that the Federation was founded as a direct response to the devastation of the Earth-Romulan War and a bulwark to prevent such a blood-soaked conflict from happening again?

Well, sure, yeah. There is a clear analogy with the UN, an organization formed to create diplomatic alternatives to war and ensure that a world war never happened again.

I guess what I'm saying is, there are two paths you can take after winning a war -- you can double down and continue to pursue aggression and warlike ways, or you can choose to react against the violence and try to create something better. Both paths grow out of the war, but they go in very different directions from there. That was the "choice of futures" that my book was about.

 

[137th Gebirg]

I had no idea the Galactica was larger than the Enterprise-D. Or the original, for that matter. That doesn't feel right. So up-scaling is a good idea.

The TOS Galactica is actually bigger than NuBSG. The former was said by Glen Larson to be "one nautical mile" in length (roughly 1852 meters). The NuBSG Wiki says the Bucket is 1445 meters. Both considerably larger than the E-D, E-E, or even any of the Abramsverse ships, with the exception of the Narada (said by Bruce Holcomb to be 6 miles long).

 

[Timo]

Didn't the writers and creators once say that the Federation was founded as a direct response to the devastation of the Earth-Romulan War and a bulwark to prevent such a blood-soaked conflict from happening again?

Well, the thing is, they never did.

That is, the writers and creators of onscreen Trek never did. Outside the vast numbers of novels, comics, RPGs and other games, we still have no idea whether the Federation has anything at all to do with the Romulan War, not even whether it was founded before, during or after that war.

Might be the Federation was founded as a bulwark against Klingons. Or to settle the disputes over exploiting the suddenly revealed natural resources of the Delphic Expanse. That story still remains to be told onscreen. And we might be in for some surprises there.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tuskin38]

Well, the thing is, they never did.

That is, the writers and creators of onscreen Trek never did. Outside the vast numbers of novels, comics, RPGs and other games, we still have no idea whether the Federation has anything at all to do with the Romulan War, not even whether it was founded before, during or after that war.

Might be the Federation was founded as a bulwark against Klingons. Or to settle the disputes over exploiting the suddenly revealed natural resources of the Delphic Expanse. That story still remains to be told onscreen. And we might be in for some surprises there.

Timo Saloniemi

A timeline of events in the ENT Mirror episodes says the Battle of Charon was in 2160, a year before the founding of the Federation.

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Earth-Romulan_War

http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Cheron

Meaning the war was before the founding.

 

[Timo]

True enough. And the people making Trek have long been aware of the "fan consensus" about the Romulan War and the UFP being related like WWII and the UN or NATO are, and would seem to agree with it for the most part. It's just that making this explicit has so far been limited to this obscure graphic... (And perhaps Picard's scrapbook pages from ST:GEN, which are if possible even more obscure.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Christopher]

Meaning the war was before the founding.

Yes, that was posited in the original Okuda Chronology, on the grounds that it was called the Earth-Romulan War and thus was presumably pre-UFP. (Of course, in reality, it was called that because the Federation hadn't been thought of yet when "Balance of Terror" was made.)

 

[pst]

not to keep shilling for this book in which i have no stake, but star trek: the art of john eaves is on sale for $17.41 on amazon (in the US, not sure about elsewhere). i liked it, i'm pretty sure several here would too.

 

[DaveyNY]

not to keep shilling for this book in which i have no stake, but star trek: the art of john eaves is on sale for $17.41 on amazon (in the US, not sure about elsewhere). i liked it, i'm pretty sure several here would too.

Holy Karp!
A 56% savings!!
I just snatched one up immediately!!!

 

[F. King Daniel]

Didn't the writers and creators once say that the Federation was founded as a direct response to the devastation of the Earth-Romulan War and a bulwark to prevent such a blood-soaked conflict from happening again?

Edison/Krall calls the Federation an "act of war" in Beyond.

 

[Timo]

And Pike, arguably a bit intoxicated, considers it a "peacekeeping armada". Might be it has a lot to do with fighting functionally. Doesn't necessarily mean it was founded for the purpose, tho.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

Edison/Krall calls the Federation an "act of war" in Beyond.

He might have been just a little bitter.

 

[cooleddie74]

Yeah, he was obviously opposed to the idea of the Federation from the start since the MACO and other warriors of his kind were no longer seen as necessary in the new interstellar order. To him the Federation was a slow death penalty, keeping him in the captain's chair of a starship when he clearly had no desire to be an explorer and a diplomat.

 

[Timo]

One wonders what sort of fighting the Federation took away from Edison.

Fighting against an external enemy? If the alliance was founded to defend against one, or in the aftermath of a big fight where one was defeated but more could be expected in the future, shouldn't Edison be delighted? Here he is, employed by a political organization founded for the sole purpose of fighting! No wussy military arm of a civilian government - the very government now is an "armada"!

Fighting against folks who now are allies? Edison spat in the direction of the Xindi, whom he probably never fought because only Hayes' unit ever was in a position to make contact with the enemy. Did the Xindi become UFP members? He also referred to the Romulans. But Romulans never became allies Edison would have been forced to break bread with (unless he knew more about the nature of the enemy than people a century later would). Did he also consider the Andorians or the Tellarites enemies? Those he might have personally fought hand-to-hoof or butted heads with antennae while Archer was off finding more aliens Earth could have a quarrel with.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tuskin38]

I think Edison was just a plain old Xenophobe

He saw every alien as the enemy.

 

[DaveyNY]

Don't forget that the alien tech he was using (which was not meant to be used on Humans) was probably seriously mucking with his head.

 

[cooleddie74]

I think Edison was just a plain old Xenophobe

He saw every alien as the enemy.

As well as some humans. It's clear that the new Federation Starfleet in the wake of the Earth-Romulan War and the carnage it inflicted on the fleets of every Coalition species didn't have the most rigorous psychological standards to put somebody in the center seat of a starship. They took who they could get, and in 2161 a man like Balthazar Edison was a seasoned veteran who knew his stuff. His personal prejudices and character flaws didn't seem to keep him out of a command posting.

 

[Christopher]

It's clear that the new Federation Starfleet in the wake of the Earth-Romulan War and the carnage it inflicted on the fleets of every Coalition species didn't have the most rigorous psychological standards to put somebody in the center seat of a starship.

Couldn't you say the same about the 23rd-century Starfleet that gave us Matt Decker, Ron Tracey, and Garth of Izar?

 

[137th Gebirg]

There were a few sociopathic captains and admirals in the 24th century that I think Starfleet could have done without as well, to be fair.