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Starship design history in light of Discovery

Syd Shanshala said:
I also loved the Europa having an NX01 style deflector dish on the bow. Great small detail that tickles my head cannon :nyah:
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NX-02, she has Columbia's revised style of deflector.

Which I suppose means only the NX-01 ever had the single prong bronze model (which she likely had replaced in the '58/'59 refit).
 
XCV330 said:
Intrepid had an NX-01 style deflector, or vice versa.
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Given that the Intrepid type is an older class, Enterprise probably had a larger (higher energy) version of it at first. And could be why it "sequencing" was it shifting energy levels from the older warp 2-3 setting to the higher warp 4-5 one.

Columbia having her new bigger deflector being mounted very early in the ships construction could be Starfleet having wanted it on the NX-01 and just not completing it in time. And would have been too much work to rip it out by the roots and attach a new one to the NX-01 in season 3.

Actually, I stopped to look at images of the Columbia class, and the NX-01 still has her old smaller deflector, but the center unit has a new two prong attachment bolted where the old antenna used to be. So yeah, too much work to remove the entire deflector and replace it.

And I forgot the deflectors are made from the same metal, it's the hull plating that's different in hue, except that the Nimitz class does have a more silver version it seems.

Which is odd, given the Europa is meant to be a much newer class of starship as the flagship with a 2154 model while the Kerala and Walker have what look like newer style ones in very old ships.

Hmm.
 
Kemaiku said:
Given that the Intrepid type is an older class
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Do you mean older than the NX class? That doesn't seem likely, given that its design is clearly a kitbash of elements from the NX class. I described it in my Rise of the Federation novels as a derivative class based on NX-program technologies but intended as an alternative in case the Warp 5 engine didn't work out, on the theory that a smaller, lighter ship with a more compact warp bubble could get up to higher warp speeds on a less advanced engine system -- hence the tightly packed design where the nacelles are right up against the saucer. The clincher for me is that there are windows on top of the saucer that are directly under the nacelle caps and have no logical reason to be there, indicating that the design is mashed together from pieces of a different design and thus has bits that don't quite fit together logically. That's true in real life, of course, and it seems like it should be true in-story too.
 
Since several of them where in service before the NX-01...

And as everyone on this board has pointed out 100 times each, books aren't canon.
 
Kemaiku said:
Since several of them where in service before the NX-01...

And as everyone on this board has pointed out 100 times each, books aren't canon.
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You're contradicting yourself here, because there's no actual canonical evidence that any Intrepid-type ships were in service before NX-01, since the design never showed up onscreen until the second-season finale. So there's no proof that they were in service prior to 2153. As far as I can tell from Memory Beta, the basis for the claim that they were in service earlier is Eaglemoss's Starships Collection magazine, which is no more canonical than the novels.

And of course the books aren't canonical, but they're contractually required to be consistent with canon, so I based my extrapolations on the information that canon provided, which is my point. If there had been any canonical basis for positing that the Intrepid type was older than the NX class, then of course I would've been obligated to go along with that, because that's what I'm paid to do. But in my judgment, the canonical evidence (specifically the ship's design, which is clearly derived from the NX class rather than the other way around) argued the opposite. And the fact that CBS Licensing didn't require me to change it is the proof that my interpretation is consistent with canon. Of course, they evidently approved Eaglemoss's interpretation too, but that just shows that the canon evidence is too sparse to resolve the issue either way. Which is why we have to look beyond facile appeals to authority and actually exercise our intelligence and judgment, e.g. by looking at the specifics of the designs and extrapolating which one is more likely derived from the other.
 
Tuskin38 said:
Source?
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They were never seen before the NX was shown. It could be imagind that the Intrepid type came slightly later, for reasons Christopher pointed out, or was a preexisting design heavily modified with the big nacelles and other bits borrowed from the Franklin and NX programs)

A RL example would be the Independence class aircraft carriers of WW2, US Navy. They were based off Cleveland class cruisers but the need for CV's was so great that work was put into these instead. They look a little "off" when you see them. They have technology intended for the Essex class that predated them slightl, but its also clear there's something not quite aircraft-carriery about em. They're not older just oddballs.

Now the Warp Deltas, I think have a better case for predating NX, at least slightly as the Emmett is shown in the credits on the "long road" sequence just before Enterprise. Emmett might not have been the same ship as the warp deltas but it clearly is invited to all the holiday dinners.
 
There is nothing strictly canonical on the age of the Intrepid design, so it's entirely open to interpretation. But FWIW, according to Memory Alpha, the final draft script of "The Expanse" (ENT) referred to it as a Warp Two vessel, which would imply it was initially intended to be older than the NX.

-MMoM:D
 
The Mighty Monkey of Mim said:
But FWIW, according to Memory Alpha, the final draft script of "The Expanse" (ENT) referred to it as a Warp Two vessel, which would imply it was initially intended to be older than the NX.
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Plenty of things get changed between script and screen, so only what airs in the final episode counts. Besides, just because a Warp 5 vessel exists, that doesn't automatically mean that every subsequent ship is going to be equally fast. It would take time for the technology to propagate through the fleet and totally supplant the older engine designs, and it stands to reason that it might take time to streamline a new engine design enough to make it usable in smaller ships. So a less powerful engine doesn't automatically have to mean an older ship.
 
Christopher said:
Plenty of things get changed between script and screen, so only what airs in the final episode counts.
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I completely agree...which I thought would be quite clear from what I said. :)

Christopher said:
Besides, just because a Warp 5 vessel exists, that doesn't automatically mean that every subsequent ship is going to be equally fast. It would take time for the technology to propagate through the fleet and totally supplant the older engine designs, and it stands to reason that it might take time to streamline a new engine design enough to make it usable in smaller ships. So a less powerful engine doesn't automatically have to mean an older ship.
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Indeed, I concur, although it would seem odd for Starfleet to still be building new Warp Two vessels when Warp Three engines were apparently already available to ECS freighters (or at least on the verge of being so) per "Fortunate Son" (ENT). But you're absolutely right that there could be any number of potential explanations for that. And here again, no reason the Intrepid need be a Warp Two vessel at all just because the script says so, since it wasn't stated onscreen.

(That being said—and no detriment whatsoever with respect to your thoughtful work meant by this—I think it's fair to say that a number of people here might find of subjectively greater value what such production sources suggest than in what licensed tie-in media do, when it comes to interpreting what's onscreen. I only sought to provide that background information as further context to the discussion, for anyone who was interested. No horse in this particular race here. I certainly wasn't implying your interpretation was wrong or unreasonable.)

-MMoM:D
 
Christopher said:
Besides, just because a Warp 5 vessel exists, that doesn't automatically mean that every subsequent ship is going to be equally fast. It would take time for the technology to propagate through the fleet and totally supplant the older engine designs.
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Look how long it took just to launch NX02 Columbia.
 
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