Starship class and spaceship class.
StarShip Classifications in your Head Cannon!
- Thread starter Kamen Rider Blade
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That's because monitors were coastal defense vessels; they had no need for the speed of say, Hood and Prince of Wales as they rushed from Scapa Flow to intercept Bismark and Prinz Eugen in the Denmark Strait.
There's a part of me that still prefers the simplicity of that during TOS. Rather than classify ships by their individual designs, you classify them by their type, and a "starship" seemed to be something special, a cut above cruisers and freighters, IMO.
I like your way of viewing this, in theory. Dramatically in the show, those vessels called "starships" were something more important than other vessels. However, the Enterprise is referred to as a "star cruiser" in a few episodes, so that means that either A) Star Cruiser is short for "Star Ship-cruiser" and a plain "cruiser" is like a pleasure-liner, or B) "cruisers" in the Federations "military" fleet are a part of a larger category of special "starships."
Then again, we never saw a Starfleet vessel that would have been less important than the ships directly or indirectly belittled in comparison with starships. For all we know, all Starfleet vessels are starships, and all of them trump all other types of ship by default.
Kirk does a job only "one man in a million" is capable of, meaning Earth alone is providing thousands of starship captains for Starfleet. Goes well with the idea that Kirk's starship is a "mere" cruiser while far bigger things fly alongside her in the 2250s as shown...
Then again, "plain cruiser" pops up as a designation for far lesser vessels in many eras of Trek, and no doubt differs from the Starfleet definition - just like navies today have cruisers that differ radically from the small boats or giant seagoing vessels of the same designation in the civilian world. Heck, Scotty even makes "cruiser" the antithesis of "starship" in his "Relics" remniscence of the ship types he has served on. So both A and B are easy to buy, even at the same time.
Timo Saloniemi
That could be just a joke. They do that on dedication plaque.
You make a good point that my point A and point B might both be true at the same time, although I am not taking the new show into account when making my point.
"Starship" might be used on the show as a shorthand for "Starfleet Ship."
That being said, and with the understanding that all TOS-R changes are of questionable canon status, the cargo-vessel Antares was given an NCC number, 501. We know that it has been suggested that it was supposed to be a merchant vessel, but this is not stated onscreen. However, Since NAR and a handful of other handles exist for civilian/non-Starfleet vessels, the Antares with an NCC number could serve as an example of a Starfleet vessel that is of lesser prestige in the fleet than an "officially-classed" starship.
I'm not even sure I like the idea I presented in the paragraph above. I just think that it is warranted to bring it up if one wants to argue that "starship-class" and "other" are official designations in TOS...which is, overall, kind of appealing.
There is always the other option for interpreting "Starship Class"... Every plaque ever seen has either that, or then a proper name we can more or less easily identify, such as "Antares Class" or "Crossfield Class". So far, there have been no plaques saying things like "Transport Class" or "Scout Class", even though we may have heard expressions like that in dialogue.
So what if "Starship" is a proper name, too? After all, "Shenzhou" is, and it's basically the very same thing.
If we don't want to believe in the existence of a USS Starship, we can go the other route and liken this to the County Class, featuring no HMS County but plenty of ships named after counties. Possibly every ship in every Starship Class has been named after former starships?
Timo Saloniemi
So what if "Starship" is a proper name, too? After all, "Shenzhou" is, and it's basically the very same thing.
If we don't want to believe in the existence of a USS Starship, we can go the other route and liken this to the County Class, featuring no HMS County but plenty of ships named after counties. Possibly every ship in every Starship Class has been named after former starships?
Timo Saloniemi
Wow. Has anyone thought of this explanation before? It makes so much sense given the fact that almost every ship in the class got its name re-used, again, some several times.
But let's take it a step further. Every ship that looks like the Enterprise in TOS is named after another ship that already existed at some point in history, most from WWII-era vessels. Supposedly, even after 2001's series, "Enterprise," was released, Kirk ship was still called the "first starship Enterprise," with Archer's being a "spaceship" (and always the fan-theory the series "Enterprise" is a parallel universe floats around). So...
Maybe the "Starship class" are all simply named after ships of many kinds that already existed, and could now carry that name around the stars.
Your comment was an interesting way to explain how the "starship class" could exist in TOS without conflicting more precise class names later.
Factors to be taken into account:
1) Starfleet has had several Starship Classes, as per the plaques: the Constitutions were one, the class that included the Franklin was another. Not a problem as such - the Royal Navy has had plenty of County Classes, or Town Classes, or Tribal Classes, etc. Not two at the same time, but that need not be the case with Starfleet, either.
2) There wouldn't be too many starships to donate names to the class of the Franklin yet! Not a problem if she's part of a class of four, though.
3) No RN dedication plaque AFAIK has ever stated that a County Class vessel would belong to the County Class. The nomer is semi-official at best. But Starfleet might do these things differently.
4) There's that "Star Ship Status" chart from Stone's office in "Court Martial", though. Perhaps being a Star Ship is a Status you need to earn? Thus, run-of-the-mill Constitutions like the Defiant would have plaques saying Constitution Class, while special accomplishments would result in the granting of a Starship Class plaque to the Enterprise.
The latter would go well with the idea that Kirk is somehow special and his ship legendary - a fan concept that is not necessarily well supported onscreen, except during a brief period of fame in the TOS movies. Comments of the "Bread and Circuses" nature about starships being a class above others would then make good sense, too, regardless of whether the starship in question was a humble scouting cruiser like Kirk's, or a giant science barge like Lorca's. Except, of course, Lorca never got the Special Plaque - so being called "starship" in dialogue is at least sometimes different from actually being a Star Ship!
Timo Saloniemi
1) Starfleet has had several Starship Classes, as per the plaques: the Constitutions were one, the class that included the Franklin was another. Not a problem as such - the Royal Navy has had plenty of County Classes, or Town Classes, or Tribal Classes, etc. Not two at the same time, but that need not be the case with Starfleet, either.
2) There wouldn't be too many starships to donate names to the class of the Franklin yet! Not a problem if she's part of a class of four, though.
3) No RN dedication plaque AFAIK has ever stated that a County Class vessel would belong to the County Class. The nomer is semi-official at best. But Starfleet might do these things differently.
4) There's that "Star Ship Status" chart from Stone's office in "Court Martial", though. Perhaps being a Star Ship is a Status you need to earn? Thus, run-of-the-mill Constitutions like the Defiant would have plaques saying Constitution Class, while special accomplishments would result in the granting of a Starship Class plaque to the Enterprise.
The latter would go well with the idea that Kirk is somehow special and his ship legendary - a fan concept that is not necessarily well supported onscreen, except during a brief period of fame in the TOS movies. Comments of the "Bread and Circuses" nature about starships being a class above others would then make good sense, too, regardless of whether the starship in question was a humble scouting cruiser like Kirk's, or a giant science barge like Lorca's. Except, of course, Lorca never got the Special Plaque - so being called "starship" in dialogue is at least sometimes different from actually being a Star Ship!
Timo Saloniemi
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That is why I suggest that the "starship class" might be reusing names from previous ships, and not necessarily previous starships or space vessels. Then there are a lot of vessels to chose from.
I consider scaling in the new show to be suspect at best, due to the visual "re-imagining" being carried out.
Does the plaque in fact say "Star Ship Class" or does it say "Starship class"?
The plaques on both Kirk's ship (many incarnations, TOS and DSC included) and the Franklin say STARSHIP CLASS in all caps.
The chart in "Court Martial" says STAR SHIP STATUS with the space between the first two words.
Then again, the plaque of the Franklin actually says FRANK LIN...
Timo Saloniemi
The chart in "Court Martial" says STAR SHIP STATUS with the space between the first two words.
Then again, the plaque of the Franklin actually says FRANK LIN...
Timo Saloniemi
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