Krasnovsky definately isn't wearing McCoy's uniform (it's a different style). I'm less confident of it being different from Spock's, but given that IIRC they appear in scenes together and new uniforms were made for the other guest stars.
:origin()/pre05/3492/th/pre/f/2017/082/3/4/court_martial_by_shamrockholmes-db3a6rs.png)
Starfleet's View on Its Sciences Division and the Star Trek Symbol
- Thread starter Baxten
- Start date
Krasnovsky definately isn't wearing McCoy's uniform (it's a different style). I'm less confident of it being different from Spock's, but given that IIRC they appear in scenes together and new uniforms were made for the other guest stars.
And on TNG Communications Officers wore Sciences blue. As I said, there are likely a wide range of roles in every division, although Command Division seems to have the narrowest definition for its personnel.
The OP did.
The OP did.
The point being: canon isn't some club to bludgeon people who disagree with you. They were making this stuff up as they went along. What sounded/looked good one week, "Vulcans cannot lie", often ends up not making sense within the greater context of a given series.
Time to go play Andromeda!
That's Klingons.
Actually, given that comms is usually handed by either Ops or Tactical, I would say that Comms are usually a Yellow Shirt job (with the notable exception of Ensign Uhnari from TNG: Aquiel. Conversely, Hoshi was Sciences because she was primarily a linguist and cryptanalysist and secondarily a Comms Officer.
Because no one expected anyone to go back and make screen captures and pick apart every detail.
But, I would prefer to see a Captain or above in Security, Engineering or Science division uniform as part of a future show.
I'm hoping that if Star Trek: Discovery follows the trend TV seems to be taking lately and looks at a wider universe with a ensemble cast, that we'll have recurring "guest" starships. Hopefully they can get some specialized ones with a Sciences Captain, and another with an Engineering Captain, etc. Would be nice to flesh out the background of Starfleet rather than continuously fixate on just the flagship.
Yes, it would be nice if they followed the vein of TOS that the ship is just one piece of a larger organization.
In my "head canon" (yes, I'm actually using that term, I feel filthy) I rationalized Charlene Masters wearing blue as the engineering department having some science specialists assigned to it. After all, when you're working with a matter/antimatter reactor, it only makes sense to have someone with a science background in the department. I always found it unfortunate the other series didn't pick up on this.
Regardless of what kind of ship it is, the Captain of the ship is going to be command department, and will therefore wear the command colour. This has always been the case in Star Trek, regardless if the ship is specifically a science ship or medical ship, or if the Captain has a background in other departments, once your part of the ship's senior command, you wear the command department colour. When Jellico relieved Riker of duty and made Data XO, he switched to red.
When we do see officers ranked Captain or above wearing other department colours, they likely do not have command experience. This was explicitly stated to be the case with Commodore Stocker in The Deadly Years, and most likely the case with Captain Krasnovsky.
I grant you, there are exceptions. Commodore Stone in Court Martial wore red and is stated to have starship command experience, while Dax still wore blue when she was made Captain of the Defiant. Oh well, what's Star Trek without some continuity goofs?
While I am on the side that Starfleet is a de-facto military (IE defense force), DS9's "Homefront" shows just how piss-poor a job it does of actual military style thinking. The only conclusion I can come to they have a blind spot to military thinking.
The wormhole was acting odd and opening repeatedly, yet it wasn't until the end of the episode that Starfleet finally voiced a suspicion that the Dominion might have developed cloaking technology for Jem Hadar ships. Sisko's trip to Earth was to supervise modifying the security procedures to fight against changeling infiltrators. This should have been implemented much earlier.
Starfleet seemed hamstrung by the civilian president and needed his permission to implement security measures within their own organization.
While we're on the subject of the president, I noticed something really unusual. The episode starts with a bombing on Earth. Dialog indicates that the FEDERATION president announced a planetary day of mourning. I didn't notice how odd that was when I first watched the episode years ago. The president didn't announce a national day of mourning, but a planet wide one. This would be like the POTUS announcing a day of mourning for one particular state ad not the whole nation. Now, I'm sure that states do have their own days of mourning, but the local state government dictates that, not the POTUS.
Again, later that same episode the same thing happens. They turn to the president of the Federation for instructions on how to best defend Earth, get Earth's power and defense back on line, etc... Never once was any mention given about Earth's government, Earth's president or prime minister or governor. Again, this is like the POTUS dictating how to defend or help a specific state without consulting that state's governor.
I don't know, maybe Earth is a federal district and under direct jurisdiction of the federal government.
Further evidence of Starfleet's slow-minded military mindset was Layton's comment about having stockpiled enough weaponry away to arm an army. This is like the army saying they have enough weapons stockpiled away to arm an army. Duh. Why would they have to stockpile weaponry away? That should have been a given. Again, it's like the army saying they stockpiled weapons away. I'd be like "you're the army, of course you have weapons."
Plus, it's clear on rewatch of DS9 that the Federation was the instigator of the war with the Dominion. Perhaps a better military mindset would have told the Federation what to expect for their continued trespass into Dominion held territory after clearly being told to stay the hell out. It's like Starfleet did not know what to expect because they were blind to military strategy.
I'm all for Starfleet being themilitary defense force, but they definitely don't think like a true military. Or they are stuck in some decades old idea of what a military should be like. Perhaps they grew too complacent with the Klingons becoming allies and the Romulans withdrawing into isolationism.
The wormhole was acting odd and opening repeatedly, yet it wasn't until the end of the episode that Starfleet finally voiced a suspicion that the Dominion might have developed cloaking technology for Jem Hadar ships. Sisko's trip to Earth was to supervise modifying the security procedures to fight against changeling infiltrators. This should have been implemented much earlier.
Starfleet seemed hamstrung by the civilian president and needed his permission to implement security measures within their own organization.
While we're on the subject of the president, I noticed something really unusual. The episode starts with a bombing on Earth. Dialog indicates that the FEDERATION president announced a planetary day of mourning. I didn't notice how odd that was when I first watched the episode years ago. The president didn't announce a national day of mourning, but a planet wide one. This would be like the POTUS announcing a day of mourning for one particular state ad not the whole nation. Now, I'm sure that states do have their own days of mourning, but the local state government dictates that, not the POTUS.
Again, later that same episode the same thing happens. They turn to the president of the Federation for instructions on how to best defend Earth, get Earth's power and defense back on line, etc... Never once was any mention given about Earth's government, Earth's president or prime minister or governor. Again, this is like the POTUS dictating how to defend or help a specific state without consulting that state's governor.
I don't know, maybe Earth is a federal district and under direct jurisdiction of the federal government.
Further evidence of Starfleet's slow-minded military mindset was Layton's comment about having stockpiled enough weaponry away to arm an army. This is like the army saying they have enough weapons stockpiled away to arm an army. Duh. Why would they have to stockpile weaponry away? That should have been a given. Again, it's like the army saying they stockpiled weapons away. I'd be like "you're the army, of course you have weapons."
Plus, it's clear on rewatch of DS9 that the Federation was the instigator of the war with the Dominion. Perhaps a better military mindset would have told the Federation what to expect for their continued trespass into Dominion held territory after clearly being told to stay the hell out. It's like Starfleet did not know what to expect because they were blind to military strategy.
I'm all for Starfleet being the
That had nothing to do per se with being in science division. It had to do with having responsibilities that were far more limited than those he desired to have. His reaction was a function of not being where he thought he should be. He was the same age but nowhere close to a path that might lead to command of a starship, which was what he desired. That's not "looking down" on science division in the slightest. That's simply having an occupation that he didn't find personally fulfilling.
In one episode Uhura was briefly moved to the navigator's station, in another Yeoman Rand the helm. Cross training is a good idea.
Only TNG focused on the flagship.
If I were on a starship, I would feel much safer if the reactor were being run by an engineer, instead of a scientist.
The wormhole should have be more tightly controlled (mine field) in the first half of the first season.
It's common in stories focusing on the military that political factors are seen as a hindrance. Also, Federation presidents are usual depicted as fools.
It's possible that what the president was actually doing is giving Starfleet a tentative approval, and as soon as they were out of the room he called Earthgov to ask that what he did be made official.
Although there is a belief among some fans that what you said is exactly the case, and Earth is a special federal district and the Federation governance is in direct control of this one planet, but could not have done the same on any other Federation member planet.
Direct analogue perhaps not but definitely heavily influenced by the U.S. Especially more so in TOS.
But Krasnovsky is specifically identified as a starship captain.
I think the evidence favors the shirt colors being less about a person's career background or specialty and more about where they are currently assigned. Starbase commanders in red could be emphasizing the maintenance/repair/support functions of the base. Of course Como. Mendez was in gold for the same starbase as Stone, so who knows. Also, astro-biologist Dr. Mulhall in red?
Oh yeah.
Ron Moore said they intentionally avoided mentioning an Earth government or head of state because they feared it would have confused the audience. So they stuck with the Federation President and government making all the calls to streamline the story. It's also important to remember the Homefront/Paradise Lost story suffered dramatically from budget cuts.
I really don't see where the confusion with Picard being disgruntled with his lack of progression comes from, its pretty evident from the episode and has been for the last 24 years.
Picard goes from being a career trailblazer who took risks, was made one of the youngest Captains in the fleet and eventually the Captain of the Federation Flagship to a lowly Lieutenant who's job is the Assistant Astrophysics Officer. I don't think for a second its because of the division but the low rank and position for someone who knows he's capable for more.
a Lt Picard with no memory of being Captain Picard may have been fairly happy with this position, maybe a little bored being the age he is and yet still only a Lieutenant, but it has nothing to do with being in the science division. He would be just as put out if he found out he was an Assistant Life Support Engineer or the backup Conn Officer during the nightshift.
Now if he had been a Lt Commander and head of the Astrophysics department of the ship that I can see him being more on board with, its the fact he wished he had played certain things safe in his past and that was the difference between being a liked but unimportant Lieutenant vs one of the most respected officers in the entire of Starfleet.
It had nothing to do with the colour of his tunic, the only reason he mentions transferring is he has realised thats where you get the chance to get noticed which can lead to being the man he knows he should be.
Picard goes from being a career trailblazer who took risks, was made one of the youngest Captains in the fleet and eventually the Captain of the Federation Flagship to a lowly Lieutenant who's job is the Assistant Astrophysics Officer. I don't think for a second its because of the division but the low rank and position for someone who knows he's capable for more.
a Lt Picard with no memory of being Captain Picard may have been fairly happy with this position, maybe a little bored being the age he is and yet still only a Lieutenant, but it has nothing to do with being in the science division. He would be just as put out if he found out he was an Assistant Life Support Engineer or the backup Conn Officer during the nightshift.
Now if he had been a Lt Commander and head of the Astrophysics department of the ship that I can see him being more on board with, its the fact he wished he had played certain things safe in his past and that was the difference between being a liked but unimportant Lieutenant vs one of the most respected officers in the entire of Starfleet.
It had nothing to do with the colour of his tunic, the only reason he mentions transferring is he has realised thats where you get the chance to get noticed which can lead to being the man he knows he should be.
