Starfleet's biggest jerks?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Vito Corleone, Oct 4, 2012.

  1. JiNX-01

    JiNX-01 Admiral Admiral

    Dec 29, 2002
    I may have missed this one while skimming the comments, but I thought Adm. Pressman in The Pegasus was a total jackass.
  2. Foxhot

    Foxhot Commodore Commodore

    Oct 28, 2011
    ''Murdering Tuvix,'' mentioned Zombie Redshirt in his anti-Janeway comments.

    More like separating his two previous halves and restoring the natural order of things. Even if two bodies can be magically transporter-accidented into one, are we to believe two souls also became one? This pro-Tuvix reasoning strikes me as beyond crazy. Four members of the Legion of Super-Heroes were similarly merged to dangerous effect in a 1977 issue of SUPERBOY. Half were male, half were female. But regardless of sex, nobody ever suggested it'd be a good idea to leave an accidental composite creature as is when they can safely be restored. Why they even entertained this notion in VOYAGER is beyond me. Especially considering Tuvok was never annoying until he merged with the annoying Neelix.:borg:
  3. TiberiusMaximus

    TiberiusMaximus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    It's because the episode made it clear that Tuvix was a brand-new lifeform with a unique personality. He wasn't just Tuvok + Neelix, he was more than the sum of his parts. Restoring Tuvok and Neelix meant killing Tuvix, who was definitively established as a sentient, sapient, unique being who did not want to die.

    Also, the way the episode portrays things makes it seem like Janeway killed Tuvix as some kind of punishment for "killing" Tuvok and Neelix when it was not in any way Tuvix's fault.

    You know who should be on the list? Solok. He's a blatantly racist jerk who thinks Vulcans are better than everyone else. Oh, and he's a total hypocrite when it comes to emotional outbursts.

    Most of the others on the list simply happen to be Designated Villains. They aren't really bad people, they just happen to be on the opposite side of our favorite characters. The only reason they don't feel sympathetic is because as the audience, we know that our "heroes" are right and these people are wrong. We have a hard time reconciling our knowledge of what's really going on with their actions, and so we tend to label them jerks, even though they really aren't.

    Basically, they disagree with Captain Kirk, therefore they must be terrible people. That's how the logic's (obviously) inaccurate, though.
  4. Admiral_Sisko

    Admiral_Sisko Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Oct 7, 2006
    This statement isn't fair, because most of the guest characters in The Search for Spock did nothing wrong. Let's look at the following list:

    Sarek: He was extremely upset with Kirk upon entering the later's apartment, but this is understandable. Sarek was grieving for his son: he was also disappointed that Kirk had made no effort to return to Spock or his katra to Vulcan. Once Sarek realized that Kirk was not in possession of the katra, he apologized. I don't think he did anything wrong, and find his behavior completely appropriate.

    Esteban: He was extremely cautious in his exploration of the Genesis planet. Whether his behavior was more the result of circumstances or his actual style of command is hard to know, as he appeared in only this film. His handling of the impending attack by Kruge's vessel was questionable, but it's important to remember that the Grissom wasn't designed for combat. It was a science vessel with minimal shields and armaments, hardly capable of standing up to a Klingon vessel.

    Marrow: He was obviously a friend of Kirk's, and seemed to have a genuine sympathy for what his friend was going through. That being said, he was also "Commander Starfleet" and had an obligation to uphold Starfleet regulations. Genesis was off-limits to anyone but personnel from USS Grissom. Marrow wasn't being a jerk in not allowing Kirk to take the Enterprise on a rescue mission. He was being responsible.

    David: His mistake in using proto-matter to complete the Genesis Device is obvious, but it doesn't make him a jerk. He sacrificed his life to save Saavik and Spock, something not at all different from what his father may have done under similar circumstances.

    Saavik: People have complained about the implications of an adult woman having intercourse with an adolescent, but let's remember that the pon farr is fatal if it is not properly dealt with.

    Styles: No question Styles was a jerk. He gloated over the Excelsior's supposed superiority to the Enterprise before the vessel had even left its docking port. He also threatened Kirk before the latter ordered the Enterprise to warp-speed.

    Kruge: Oh, yeah. Kruge was huge asshole. He stole top-secret information about Genesis, took his vessel into Federation space without authorization from the Klingon High Council, destroyed USS Grissom, crippled USS Enterprise, endangered the lives of two Starfleet officers, murdered a civilian scientist, and assaulted a Starfleet flag-officer.
  5. Admiral_Sisko

    Admiral_Sisko Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Oct 7, 2006
    Absolutely. Anyone who says, "I made you, Mister, and I can break you just as easily," is nothing but a glorified schoolyard bully. Riker's decision to stand up to him was my favorite moment of the entire episode.
  6. t_smitts

    t_smitts Captain Captain

    Jun 11, 2005
    Okay, I was exaggerating about the guest characters in STIII.

    First of all, I was really only talk about the characters at Spacedock who rubbed our heroes the wrong way:

    -Capt. Styles telling Scotty about the Excelsior breaking Enterprise's speed records.
    -The guard who called Sulu "tiny".
    -And of course "Mr. Adventure", who's enormously disrespectful to a superior officer.
  7. JRoss

    JRoss Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Dec 19, 2010
    That author was off on pretty much every character. The only ones who deserved to be there were Leyton and Cartwright. What about Sloan, Colonel West, Rudy Ransom, Admiral Dougherty and the like?

    He gets on folks' case for putting the greater good over that of an individual or small group. By that logic Spock is a jerk.

    I'm bristling especially at Jellico. The man was probably the most competent captain that Star Trek has ever shown, and he didn't ask any more from his crew than could reasonably be expected on a military vessel.
  8. Xhiandra

    Xhiandra Commander Red Shirt

    Apr 29, 2012
    Janeway gets out with an insanity plea. She's clearly not mentally stable enough to be responsible for her actions.

    Which means I have to un-nominate Sisko. He's not smart enough to be responsible for his actions.
  9. Admiral_Sisko

    Admiral_Sisko Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Oct 7, 2006
    Why is that?
  10. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Jun 15, 2012
    Yeah... Sisko gassing that Maquis colony wasn't good... he should've been sharing a jail cell with Eddington over that one.
  11. Drago-Kazov

    Drago-Kazov Fleet Captain

    Jul 26, 2012
    What about the guy who was with the Traveler.

    Remmeber tought is the basis of reality!!!!!!!!
  12. The Castellan

    The Castellan Commodore Commodore

    May 2, 2004
    The Plains of Cydonia
    The entire staff of the Starbase from ST3
    Nachiov (not sure how ya spell her name)
    The whole of Section 31
    95% of the admirals from TOS
  13. bluepicard27

    bluepicard27 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    lt commander chris hobson: androidist :borg: not cool
  14. TiberiusMaximus

    TiberiusMaximus Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    I agree, I actually liked Jellico. Not as much as I liked Picard, of course, but he wasn't a bad guy.
  15. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Nov 5, 2008
    King Daniel Beyond
    Captain Pike, TOS version. Sexist much?
  16. Drago-Kazov

    Drago-Kazov Fleet Captain

    Jul 26, 2012
    He was just pretending because aparently the chicks were into it.