Starfleet: What is it?

[Man of Steel]

Okay, having a conversation about this and I was wondering what the rest of you thought.

Do you consider Starfleet:

A: Civilian

B: Military

C: Both

Why?

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Military.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Military, even if probably it's somehow different from what we have today (just as 17th century's armies are different from today's armies). Starfleet may be not necessarily militant or belligerent, but it has all the trappings of a military body.

 

[Christopher]

It's definitely military in form and structure. It has a rank system, it has uniforms, it has weapons, it has courts-martial -- on every level, it functions as a military. It's just a military whose priorities are more strongly oriented toward science and exploration than toward combat.

 

[Dayton Ward]

It's a military organization, though it's obviously evolved beyond what most people think of as a military in the present day. Starfleet is to today's military as today's military is to that of the 1700s.

As for the question itself: Why not post it to General Trek? You'd likely get a larger range of responses.

 

[Man of Steel]

It's a military organization, though it's obviously evolved beyond what most people think of as a military in the present day. Starfleet is to today's military as today's military is to that of the 1700s.

Dayton,

Any ranks in Starfleet that is NOT used anymore in our military or vice versa?

 

[Sci]

The Federation Starfleet is explicitly referred to as the military in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan by David Marcus, and Carol Marcus counters him not by claiming that it isn't a military but by claiming that it has kept the peace. Captain Kirk and Nog both refer to themselves as soldiers in "Errand of Mercy" and "Valiant," respectively. Starfleet is called upon to enforce martial law on Earth in "Homefront"/"Paradise Lost" (martial being an adjective form of military). Starfleet is referred to as "the service" in "Court Martial" and "Dr. Bashir, I Presume?" And finally, Starfleet administers a system of courts-martial, as evidenced in "Court Martial," "The Measure of a Man," and numerous other episodes. And, finally, Starfleet is the agency legally empowered to use violence in defense of the state during times of war, which is the definition of a military.

Now, they may not use the word "military" -- the meaning of that word may have evolved. "Military" used to mean "armed forces that operate on land," for instance; maybe it means "armed forces dedicated to planet-side combat but not space combat," for instance. (Though David Marcus's use of the term "the military" and the other forms of military that appear in ST would seem to imply that they use the word with the same meaning we do today.) And certainly we can all agree that Starfleet is not militant -- it's not out to start wars, it's not imperialistic, it's not ethnocentric, it's not jingoistic, and it's more oriented towards exploration, diplomacy, peace-keeping, and humanitarianism.

But even if they use a different word, the actual legal definition of what Starfleet is fits the definition we presently use for the word "military." The concept is the same. Starfleet is not a civilian organization -- it is the armed forces of the United Federation of Planets.

ETA:

The only piece of canonical evidence against the idea of Starfleet as a military is Picard's infamous line in "Peak Performance." The preponderance of canonical evidence is clearly not on the "not military" side of this argument.

And just to keep this relevant to TrekLit...

Chapter 3 of Slings and Arrows: Enterprises of Great Pitch and Motion by Keith R.A. DeCandido establishes very firmly that Starfleet is a military.

Starfleet's primary mission had always been exploration. While Starfleet was obviously a military organization, with its rank structure and internal regulations and enforcement, it was never militaristic. Its function was to keep the peace, not start the wars.

Bold added.

ETA again:

It's a military organization, though it's obviously evolved beyond what most people think of as a military in the present day. Starfleet is to today's military as today's military is to that of the 1700s.

Dayton,

Any ranks in Starfleet that is NOT used anymore in our military or vice versa?

The rank of "Commodore" is not used in the current United States Navy (though it remains as a position rather than a rank), being replaced with the rank of "Rear Admiral, Lower Half." TNG, DS9, and VOY discontinued using "Commodore" as a rank after the USN ended its use in real life. TrekLit set in the TNG era has occasionally featured officers with the rank of Commodore, however.

 

[Dayton Ward]

Any ranks in Starfleet that is NOT used anymore in our military or vice versa?

Well, Starfleet uses a rank structure based on that of the U.S. Navy, at least so far as its officers are concerned. They're used to be commodores in Trek, just as there were with the Navy. The Navy changed that back in the 70s, and Trek appeared to follow suit at some point in the movie era (There is a reference to a Commodore SomebodyOrOther in TMP, IIRC).

 

[David Brennon]

I remember reading one of the Last Unicorn Star Trek RPG books a few years back. I believe it was the Dominion War Sourcebook. It talked about Starfleet and called them a Quasi-Military organization but that the war had changed them, polarized them into a more active military stance. I can imagine that the Borg Invasion has had a similar effect on them.

I guess my answer would be "It depends."

 

[Sci]

I remember reading one of the Last Unicorn Star Trek RPG books a few years back. I believe it was the Dominion War Sourcebook. It talked about Starfleet and called them a Quasi-Military organization but that the war had changed them, polarized them into a more active military stance. I can imagine that the Borg Invasion has had a similar effect on them.

I guess my answer would be "It depends."

No, it really doesn't. They just are a military organization. Not quasi-. Not para-. Just military.

I'm not trying to be rude, here, but one of the things people tend to forget is that the classification of an institution as civilian or military has nothing to do with ideology, or even with the operating ethos of the organization in question. It's a purely legal distinction. It's a matter of objective fact, not opinion, and not anything else.

If the institution is legally designated by the state to use force in defense of the state in times of war, and can institute a system of internal laws backed up by force to use on its members while holding them immune from civilian law, then it's a military. Starfleet is the institution legally designated by the state to use force in defense of the state in times of war, and it institutes a system of internal laws backed up by force to use on its members while holding them immune from civilian law. Therefore, Starfleet is a military.

 

[Mysterion]

Starfleet's a desert topping AND a floor-wax!

 

[Christopher]

(martial being an adjective form of military)

Uhh, no, the adjectival form of military is military. As in military intelligence, the military mind, a military response, etc. Military is an adjective more often than it's a noun. It's from miles, the Latin word for "soldier." Martial means "warlike," and literally means "belonging to Mars," the Roman god of war.

(There is a reference to a Commodore SomebodyOrOther in TMP, IIRC).

You mean you don't remember Commodore Probert? My faith in your geek cred is deeply shaken...

 

[David Brennon]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree here my friend. I respect your statement and I can see why you would believe this (and to a degree you're right, hence the usage of the prefix quasi), however I don't agree 100% with your assessment. Based on the tone of your previous reply, you obviously have strong views and I really don't want to stir up your wrath so please don't take my reply as an affront.

That said, I'll quote the text in the LUG book that talks about my opinion. Remember, these aren't my words, they were written by a LUG game writer, I just happen to think they hold water.

From page 43 of The Dominion War Sourcebook: The Fires of Armageddon:

Throughout the UFP's existence, countless books, fora, and private debates have discussed the nature of Starfleet and its mission as a part of the Federation. The core fact at the heart of those discussions, and its implications, bears repeating here.

Starfleet is not a military organization.

Starfleet is an organization devoted to exploration, scientific discovery, and diplomacy. It also defends the Federation against aggressors and various other threats. Now, obviously, an organization that defends a political entity functions at some level, as a "military" organization, Starfleet possesses, and when necessary uses, military technology, military doctrine and military procedures.

But there's more to being a military organization than such trappings. There's also the issue of outlook and conduct. Most truly military organizations, such as the Jem'Hadar or the Romulan Star Navy, actively regard themselves as military entities. They may perform other missions, such as exploring the galaxy, but they think of themselves, first and foremost, as militaries.

Not so with Starfleet. To Starfleet, its defense role occupies a secondary place in its view of itself. Indeed, many Starfleet officers abhor violence and use of force as a tool of political will, and find the growing concept of Starfleet as military distasteful. Starfleet officers want to learn, grow and develop themselves and their society - not to fight.

That's not to say Starfleet offices are pacifists. Most of them recognize that there comes a time when right-thinking men must use force to preserve that which is good. When push comes to shove they take a stand and protect the Federation by any legitimate means necessary. Starfleet counts among its personnel some of the most brilliant tacticians and strategists in history of its member species, and remains cognizant of the fact that without it, the Federation's enemies would quickly overrun the UFP worlds.

Many officers prefer to describe Starfleet as quasi-military. This recognizes Starfleet's important role as Federation defender, and its use of many aspects of military culture in organization and procedure. But it also stresses that Starfleet isn't a traditional military and doesn't consider its military missions its primary ones.

Again, these words belong to someone else (Steven S. Long), I'm just borrowing them but they make the point I'm getting at. Yes, technically Starfleet may be classified as a military organization, however it is much more than than and in the 24th century more than ever it focuses on a much broader brush stoke.

Think of United Earth's Starfleet, the legitimate precursor to the Federation Starfleet. In the Season 2 episode The Expanse, Admiral Forest is concerned when Captain Archer agrees to let a group of MACO's onto Enterprise. He specifically asks if the Captain feels comfortable with Military on board.

That said, there has also been quotes from various movies and TrekLit calling Starfleet the Military. What do we get from this?

That the writers don't seem to pay attention to each other?

Maybe a little, but I think that if we look deeper (as we're prone to do on such message boards during such discussions) that we'll find the answer is much more complicated than a simple black and white.

Anyway, that's just my opinion.

 

[Sci]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree here my friend.

First off, USS Hartington, I want to emphasize that this is not a personal attack. You seem like a very nice person and I've got nothing against you.

But.

This is not a matter of opinion. Legally-speaking, if an institution possess the traits that Starfleet possesses -- being legally charged by the state with defending it in times of war, and having a system of courts-martial -- it's a military, pure and simple. Starfleet has these; Starfleet is a military.

From page 43 of The Dominion War Sourcebook: The Fires of Armageddon:

Throughout the UFP's existence, countless books, fora, and private debates have discussed the nature of Starfleet and its mission as a part of the Federation. The core fact at the heart of those discussions, and its implications, bears repeating here.

Starfleet is not a military organization.

Starfleet is an organization devoted to exploration, scientific discovery, and diplomacy. It also defends the Federation against aggressors and various other threats. Now, obviously, an organization that defends a political entity functions at some level, as a "military" organization, Starfleet possesses, and when necessary uses, military technology, military doctrine and military procedures.

But there's more to being a military organization than such trappings.

Mister Long is mistaken, here. Those are not mere "trappings," and there is nothing more to the status of being a military than the "trappings" of being the organization that defends a political entity. That IS the definition of a military.

Outlook and conduct are entirely besides the point in defining whether or not something is a military. For instance, the United States Coast Guard is legally a military organization. Yet its outlook and conduct are not belligerent, and its primary missions tend to be law enforcement-oriented rather than defense-oriented. Yet even when the USCG is under the authority of the Department of Homeland Security rather than the Department of Defense, it is still a military organization.

Yes, technically Starfleet may be classified as a military organization, however it is much more than than and in the 24th century more than ever it focuses on a much broader brush stoke.

"Technically" is the only thing that matters in classifying an organization as civilian or military. We're dealing with a technical distinction, not a distinction of subjective opinion or operational ethos or ideology.

The word you're looking for is militaristic, not military. Starfleet is a military, but it is not militaristic.

 

[David Brennon]

I didn't think you were attacking me, however you argue your point with passion and I wanted to make it clear off the bat that I wasn't taking anything personally. I'm glad you're one of those folks (like myself) that can get into the feeling of their position, it makes the process more fun.

One could make an argument that Starfleet is a combination of various uniformed services, like a mixture between the Navy, NOAA and PHS. While NOAA and PHS are uniformed services and are held accountable by the UCMJ, they are not considered military. The existance of a dedicated scientific branch of Starfleet leads me to believe this. NOAA and PHS follow a ranking structure, wear uniforms and have a hierarchy, but they are not members of the Military.

We're not going to see eye to eye on this one I think.

 

[Christopher]

^That's a contradictory argument, because you acknowledge that Starfleet does include the Navy as part of the "mixture." That makes it a military, regardless of what other things it resembles.

Sci is correct. The mistake that you, Mr. Long, Picard, and others (including myself in the past) have made is to equate "military" with "warlike." That's an understandable perception, to be sure, but as Sci demonstrates, it's not strictly accurate. Starfleet is a military dedicated primarily to exploration and peacekeeping. There is nothing in the definition of the word "military" that precludes such a set of priorities.

 

[David Brennon]

Firstly, let's remember that we can have differing opinions. No one here is inherently right or wrong. There were three options to the question above after all, not just Civilian and Military.

With respect Christopher, it isn't a contradictory argument. Since my first post I have been saying that it is a military, but not just a military. There is more to it than that and that is why I say when I answer the original question presented that it is both.

The organization itself has military aspects, but it is not defined by that. Just because the Police or Fire Department or FBI or Civil Air Patrol or NOAA or PHS or private organized militias or any number of other groups use a hierarchy that resembles a military hierarchy and/or behaves in a manner that acts in the defense of the community does not make it military group.

However, because Starfleet does have a military branch to it it can qualify as a military as I said.

You need to remember what my whole point is though. There are non-military aspects to Starfleet that need to be considered or else the whole point to having an option C is moot. The Science Division of Starfleet, in my thinking is an example. There is a distinction between Uniformed Service and Armed Service. Perhaps what we see as Starfleet is a melding of the two, using one structure but giving a broader scope to look at other than defense.

Starfleet's primary mission is not the defense of the Federation. Captain Kirk didn't say "These are the voyages of the Starship Enterprise. Its five year mission, to patrol the boarders of the Federation, to defend her from its enemies and oh yeah to take a look at some places we've never been before." He said it explore strange new worlds. Gene Roddenberry wanted some of the more militaristic moments of Star Trek VI removed, but he died before he could get his way. The vision has always been one of peaceful exploration. I'm not saying they're not a Military. I'm saying they're more than just a military. I am answering that in my opinion the answer to the question is C, both civilian and military. In other words I believe they are quasi-military in nature.

 

[Thrawn]

Wikipedia.

Military - A military is an organization authorized by its nation to use force, usually including use of weapons, in defending its country (or by attacking other countries) by combating actual or perceived threats.

Case closed. Starfleet is a military organization.

 

[David Brennon]

And I was under the impression this was an opinion poll.

 

[Thrawn]

Man of Steel thought it was. Overwhelming evidence has been presented to the contrary.

Or, to put it another way, there have been a million threads that someone has started saying "Star Trek books - canon or not?", but that doesn't make it a valid opinion that Trek books are canon. Since, by definition, they aren't.