He could have spinned the truth a bit to get the E-C to go back and sacrifice itself if it meant that 20 years of grinding warfare was averted.
Just a guess.
Starfleet vs. Klingons (who wins)
- Thread starter Sisko4Life
- Start date
- Status
Just a guess.
I don't think so. In that episode, Riker explicitly referred to the Enterprise-D as a battleship, which always refers to the strongest class of vessel with the largest combat resources. Not to mention, Picard also said "every available ship is being rushed into active service." It's hard to advance technology DURING a lengthy drawn out war as opposed to peace during the threat of an imminent invasion. We don't know if Defiant / Sovys were even in the making in that timeline, but we DO know that they were a direct result of Borg contact. Also, Akira Class vessels were supposedly made in response to the Cardassian War (as speculated by the writers due to their registry numbers), which would not have even existed in that timeline.
Side note: If you've read the Destiny trilogy, it describes images of the Borg Cubes closing on Qo'nos and Klingon battlecruisers ramming them to hell. Sounds Jem'Hadaresque. No doubt a Federation victory would be devastating for both sides, but I don't think the Klings have the resources to beat the Federation in a long campaign, which is why the alternate timeline seems so whacky. Klingon victories seem to favor quick lightning thrusts like they did to Cardassia. But once the Cardassians mobilized it was more of a struggle.
Side note: If you've read the Destiny trilogy, it describes images of the Borg Cubes closing on Qo'nos and Klingon battlecruisers ramming them to hell. Sounds Jem'Hadaresque. No doubt a Federation victory would be devastating for both sides, but I don't think the Klings have the resources to beat the Federation in a long campaign, which is why the alternate timeline seems so whacky. Klingon victories seem to favor quick lightning thrusts like they did to Cardassia. But once the Cardassians mobilized it was more of a struggle.
You don't consider 20 years a long campaign? Anyway, many new technological advances were made during warfare such as RADAR, ballistic missiles, or the atom bomb. Perhaps in the alternate timeline, these new ship classes were developed in response to Klingon aggression instead of Cardassian or Borg aggression. Perhaps these classes may have come even earlier due to the war. Galaxy-class as a battleship does not preclude the existence of these other ship classes. If a Galaxy-class was created from the bottom up as a warship, it would be the strongest class of vessel. Picard is not one to over-exaggerate or spin things to manipulate people. If he says the Federation is about to loose the war, I'd take him at his word.
The problem there is your comparing regular universe Picard to the alternate version from the Yesterday's Enterprise universe.
We don't really know the alternate Picard well, he could be very different from the regular one as he has had a different life for the past 20 years in that universe.
So while RU Picard doesn't tell out and out falsehoods and alternate version very well could.
He could, but you have no proof of that. There is no proof that Picard was wrong or lying when he said the Federation was about to be defeated by the Klingons. That's the reason the Federation was putting every ship they could into battle, no matter the age of the ship, because they were loosing.
We could assume that because peace with the Federation was destroyed by the Ent-C failing to assist against the Romulans, that the Klingons put more focus on their military and maybe hostilities were so bad with the Federation that they forged an alliance with the Romulans.
There's no proof the Klingons allied with the Romulans, they aren't even mentioned. If anything, it's the Federation that would want to ally itself with the Romulans.
At the end of the day it's probably not in the interest of the Federation or the Klingons to go to war with eachother, for the following reason: the Romulans.
I remember playing Age of Empires III with two of my friends. The most experienced player and therefore the default best player. attacked me but failed to finish me off. he then get embroiled in a war with my other friend. so consequently I waited for the right time to strike. Both players were heavily distracted so I attacked the base of the best player and destroyed it and then turned against the weaker player who had been so badly mauled from the previous fight that he was in no position to win.
In other words- the Romulans would just wait for the right time to strike. thus emerging victorious
I remember playing Age of Empires III with two of my friends. The most experienced player and therefore the default best player. attacked me but failed to finish me off. he then get embroiled in a war with my other friend. so consequently I waited for the right time to strike. Both players were heavily distracted so I attacked the base of the best player and destroyed it and then turned against the weaker player who had been so badly mauled from the previous fight that he was in no position to win.
In other words- the Romulans would just wait for the right time to strike. thus emerging victorious
The Federation. Both Worf and Kurn said that the Empire would lose a war against the Federation. And whilst Worf didn't live in the Empire, simply being Klingon and for much of his life being head of a major Klingon House meant he was up to speed in the Empire's politics. Of course, Kurn had a seat on the High Council, so would know first hand about the strength of the Klingon Defence Force.
Picard's statement came after his discussion with Guinan. He wanted the Enterprise Cee to return to it's own time period and die defending a Klingon colony from the Romulans. Immediately prior to Picard's "We're going to surrender in six month," Garrett said she, and her ship, would be staying in the future.
Picard had every reason to lie to her.
Interesting ways of looking at this.
I agree with a previous poster--in one alternate reality the Klingons come within a few inches of conquering the Federation.
Although it was a 20 year war.
And they had the cloak, which at the time, made them seem scary.
In another they conquered the Romulans completely.
In the 'real' reality, they came pretty close to conquering the Cardassians.
But I think it may mainly be a toss of the coin and the situation.
The Feds obviouskly kept them at bay for decades, and during ST-TUC, the Feds could have beaten them if they decided to launch a full scale attack.
I agree with a previous poster--in one alternate reality the Klingons come within a few inches of conquering the Federation.
Although it was a 20 year war.
And they had the cloak, which at the time, made them seem scary.
In another they conquered the Romulans completely.
In the 'real' reality, they came pretty close to conquering the Cardassians.
But I think it may mainly be a toss of the coin and the situation.
The Feds obviouskly kept them at bay for decades, and during ST-TUC, the Feds could have beaten them if they decided to launch a full scale attack.
I never believed the implausible Yesterday's Enterprise long war scenario.
If starships are analogus to sailing ships then such wars should only last such a great time due to slow communication or travel speed. Such as England fighting Spain(or France or the Dutch) in the New World.
Privateering and circum navigating the globe would have taken months if not years in the eras past. However the Klingon homeworld seems to be very close to Earth/Federation space.
We already have one canon interstellar conflict, the Earth-Romulan war and that was over in a few years. And as Enterprise showed, the Romulans were not warpless barbarbians but quite technologically savy.
The Excelsior class would have been the bulk of the fleet at the time of Narendra III and they should still be quite capable in combat in that time frame, certainly against normal sized BOP or K'tingas.
In my opinion the Vorcha dates from the 2350s so it should not even be around to challange the Ambassador and Excelsior classes.
I have no idea how the Federation could have gotten to a situation of immeninent defeat. They simply could have massed produced genesis torpedos and lit the whole neutral zone on fire. Starfleet already had its Manhattan Project ace card. Surely the Federations culture of pacifism would have been somewhat reduced by decades of conflict. I argue such a mentality would not even have fully formed during Garett's era.
I suppose the Federation could have suffered a great institutional wasting in the 30 years between the Tomed Incident and Narendra III.
If starships are analogus to sailing ships then such wars should only last such a great time due to slow communication or travel speed. Such as England fighting Spain(or France or the Dutch) in the New World.
Privateering and circum navigating the globe would have taken months if not years in the eras past. However the Klingon homeworld seems to be very close to Earth/Federation space.
We already have one canon interstellar conflict, the Earth-Romulan war and that was over in a few years. And as Enterprise showed, the Romulans were not warpless barbarbians but quite technologically savy.
The Excelsior class would have been the bulk of the fleet at the time of Narendra III and they should still be quite capable in combat in that time frame, certainly against normal sized BOP or K'tingas.
In my opinion the Vorcha dates from the 2350s so it should not even be around to challange the Ambassador and Excelsior classes.
I have no idea how the Federation could have gotten to a situation of immeninent defeat. They simply could have massed produced genesis torpedos and lit the whole neutral zone on fire. Starfleet already had its Manhattan Project ace card. Surely the Federations culture of pacifism would have been somewhat reduced by decades of conflict. I argue such a mentality would not even have fully formed during Garett's era.
I suppose the Federation could have suffered a great institutional wasting in the 30 years between the Tomed Incident and Narendra III.
By that logic I must accept Threshold
I'm afraid so. You can curse the writers, bury your head in the sand, or cry until your eyes bleed but the fact is it happened. It's there, no amount of complaining can change that. Deal with it.
The Klingons science and military is probably underfunded...because it's not a democratic society. You couldn't pay all the smart people for the emotional and physical stress of working for researches that help improve the Klingon Empire military, science and economy. Smart and resourceful people would go where the money is...if it doesn't pay for all the emotional stress, then they wouldn't stick around for long.
- Status
Similar threads
