Starfleet, The Federation and civilian space exploration
- Thread starter Brannigan
- Start date
I can imagine a(n enforced) ban on visiting primitive worlds in known (or at least, controlled) Federation space, but what's to stop a vessel from traveling into the unknown and start exploration there? Sure, if you commission a vessel the size of the Enterprise-D there are probably bound to be some questions, but a small ship?
The Hansens' example seems to tell us that the idea of exploration independently from Starfleet is at least frowned upon, but whether it's actually forbidden (in the 24th century) remains unclear.
The Hansens' example seems to tell us that the idea of exploration independently from Starfleet is at least frowned upon, but whether it's actually forbidden (in the 24th century) remains unclear.
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I can see Pre-FTL civilizations within Federation territory being under protection.
But those outside UFP territory wouldn't be able to be monitored / protected from meddling IMO.
What are the chances that StarFleet will be there when a random Federation citizen meddles in the affairs of a Pre-FTL civilization.
And even if StarFleet was there, I'm sure there were some standard protocol for dealing with that situation.
But those outside UFP territory wouldn't be able to be monitored / protected from meddling IMO.
What are the chances that StarFleet will be there when a random Federation citizen meddles in the affairs of a Pre-FTL civilization.
And even if StarFleet was there, I'm sure there were some standard protocol for dealing with that situation.
Or, more specifically, law enforcement. Laws mean nothing without someone to force the issue for people who just don't get it.
Yes, but those weren't Federation citizens in the first place, so can't be held to Federation law. (Unless the Federation and Ferenginar have some agreement),
The thing is, it seems nobody can be held to Federation law, assuming one even exists. "Angel One" shows how the law protects the meddler in the 24th century, while precluding "enforcing" (that is, there's nothing to enforce, quite to the contrary in fact).
The 23rd century may or may not be different. TOS meddlers Gill and Tracey are government or indeed Starfleet operatives, bound by specific regulations that we know still apply in the 24th century. Captain Merrick's status is a bit ambiguous, as is the exact nature and basis of Kirk's vendetta against the meddler: is he lying to Claudius about his right and obligation to arrest Merrick? In any case, all of the examples show the futility of intervention: Gill only got caught because Melakon stopped him from sending regular false reports to home base, Tracey already did all the damage he could before Starfleet seemingly utterly randomly stumbled upon him after half a year, and Merrick had been at it for ten times longer...
Timo Saloniemi
The 23rd century may or may not be different. TOS meddlers Gill and Tracey are government or indeed Starfleet operatives, bound by specific regulations that we know still apply in the 24th century. Captain Merrick's status is a bit ambiguous, as is the exact nature and basis of Kirk's vendetta against the meddler: is he lying to Claudius about his right and obligation to arrest Merrick? In any case, all of the examples show the futility of intervention: Gill only got caught because Melakon stopped him from sending regular false reports to home base, Tracey already did all the damage he could before Starfleet seemingly utterly randomly stumbled upon him after half a year, and Merrick had been at it for ten times longer...
Timo Saloniemi
"Angel One" was dealing with a culture that was already an active participant in the interstellar community. The Prime Directive issue there is not getting involved in internal affairs. A different level of protection would apply to pre-warp / non-spacefaring / unaware of the larger interstellar community cultures.
Certainly so. Does this present us with a Catch-22, then? If a meddler reveals the existence of the interstellar community, does the PD then automatically have to jump tracks and start dealing with peer-level political interference (which we know is also covered by the PD, as with the Bajor vs. Cardassia case explicitly and the UFP vs. Klingon Empire case slightly less explicitly)? That is, is prosecuting somebody for meddling with a virgin culture impossible by definition, what with the meddling doing away with the virginity?
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
There are probably laws on the federation that prohibit civilian ships from making contact with pre warp cultures.. But it's not like there's a cop in every system.. Untill someone notices or catches you..
As for unexplored space, as a feddy citizen ur probably still under the law even outside fedy space. And if cought would face the penalties.
In one book, Picard participated in an extended archeological project that was sponsored by a university. So if say some thins Starfleet would spend the resources or is in the que but not a priority or far out ..
Look at professor Galen.. He was going around for years in his shuttle.
Starfleet isn't going to put a ship in orbit for years to do an archeological dig, or study an interesting sun or planet.
Starfleet is more like cartographers.. Charting space.
As for unexplored space, as a feddy citizen ur probably still under the law even outside fedy space. And if cought would face the penalties.
In one book, Picard participated in an extended archeological project that was sponsored by a university. So if say some thins Starfleet would spend the resources or is in the que but not a priority or far out ..
Look at professor Galen.. He was going around for years in his shuttle.
Starfleet isn't going to put a ship in orbit for years to do an archeological dig, or study an interesting sun or planet.
Starfleet is more like cartographers.. Charting space.
The Prime Directive or General Order One...
That's a Starfleet order, not a Federation law. If there is an equivalent in Federation law, we don't know what it is.
People not in Starfleet are not bound by Starfleet orders.
A good story for you writers out there, could be any era..
Have a civilian ship either
A: something breaks down on they have to land on a pre warp planet, and have the heroes find them.. (somehting like carbon creek) but are otherwise not spoted.
B: Ship breaks, and they are spoted, found by a small group or 1 alien ( whichever voyager ep that was)
C. Ship breaks and crashes and is found out by the whole planet, and have to do an emergency first contact.
D: Ship breaks, and crashes in to the plant.. at warp.. causing untold destruction (ELE Event) and the heroes go in to try to fix it.
Have a civilian ship either
A: something breaks down on they have to land on a pre warp planet, and have the heroes find them.. (somehting like carbon creek) but are otherwise not spoted.
B: Ship breaks, and they are spoted, found by a small group or 1 alien ( whichever voyager ep that was)
C. Ship breaks and crashes and is found out by the whole planet, and have to do an emergency first contact.
D: Ship breaks, and crashes in to the plant.. at warp.. causing untold destruction (ELE Event) and the heroes go in to try to fix it.
Oh, General Order 1 is clearly a Starfleet-only regulation, in good company with plenty of other Orders, General or not.
But it might be that General Order 1 is not the same thing as the Prime Directive. Instead, General Order 1 might state "Starfleet employees must obey the Prime Directive", which in turn is a civilian rule. Possibly only applying to government workers rather than all civilians, though, considering.
Whether Starfleet would have Directives... Well, there's the Omega one. Although again this might be a far more general rule, and there's just a General Order that states "Starfleet employees from Captain up must obey the Omega Directive, and must keep their underlings ignorant of said".
Timo Saloniemi
The Federation is eight thousand light year across and "only" has 150 members, likely the majority of Federation space is just open space with countless non-Federation warp civilizations claiming portions of the same volume.
Can the Federation or Starfleet prevent citizens from various member worlds from exploring, settling, mining, etc. on non-warp inhabited worlds?
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And would that matter, when non-members can do that just as easily? It's not as if the UFP borders ever kept anybody out: they're only an excuse for prosecuting trespassers in the extremely unlikely case of them actually getting caught while within said borders.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
And to allow fundamentalist Christians or any other group access to pre-warp civilisations to spread their beliefs would be catastrophic for the locals.
Starfleet MUST have some safety net in place to prevent it from happening.
There’s no reason to think the Federation would stop you. The biggest obstacle might be access to resources as a Federation citizen without going through the Federation.
And a bigger problem might be defending yourself outside Federation territory without the ability to call in help or invoke existing treaties.
And a bigger problem might be defending yourself outside Federation territory without the ability to call in help or invoke existing treaties.
Apparently, they are some laws in Federation Space, from Mudd's Women:
I wonder who are the legal authorities?
- Captain's log, Stardate 1329.8. The U.S.S. Enterprise in pursuit of an unidentified vessel. <edit. Why?>
-
- KIRK: This hearing is convened. Stardate 1329.2, on board starship U.S.S. Enterprise. Formal hearings against transport captain Leo Walsh. Start computer.
- KIRK: Mister Mudd, you're charged with galaxy travel without a flight plan, without an identification beam, and failure to answer a starship's signal, thus effecting a menace to navigation. <Ah, the reason for the pursuit and charges.>
- KIRK: You're also charged with operation of a vessel without a master's license. <An added charge.>
- KIRK: The only charges are against Mister Mudd. Illegal operation of a vessel. Do you have any defence to offer?
MUDD: Only heaven's own truth, which I've just given you.
KIRK: The hearing is closed. Mister Mudd to be handed over to the legal authorities at our earliest opportunity. <The finding.>
That's like saying that once a person is dead, their killer can't be charged for murder, because a dead person can't be killed.
