darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
^No doubt...I wonder if somehow Triox Compound was involved.
Starfleet Shuttle Emergency Equipment
- Thread starter darkwing_duck1
- Start date
Yea, as I have said, the EVA suits will need to be emergency units, not the full up suits they use for serious work. I am sure with the technology available by then they could come up with a collapsable/folding helmet.
When it comes to gas cylinders, forego those all together and use something like the oxygen "candles" used on the ISS/MIR.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_oxygen_generator
When it comes to gas cylinders, forego those all together and use something like the oxygen "candles" used on the ISS/MIR.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_oxygen_generator
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
Oxygen candles don't work in man-portable gear though, which is what those cylinders are supposed to represent.
Oh well, getting down to the point of really nit-picking anyways...
Oh well, getting down to the point of really nit-picking anyways...
Let's remember that we are discussing the rough timeframe of TAS here. Most of the personal protection gear would be redundant if the shuttle simply carried a life support belt of TAS fame under each seat!
Those, plus perhaps two spare batteries for each. And possibly two larger units that replace tents. From what we see in TAS, this is robust technology, potentially much more durable and reliable than suits or tents made out of physical material.
Also, from the few TAS appearances of this tech, it seems that it might be intended for brief/emergency use only. The only time we see it used in conventional spacewalking is when doing a hostage exchange with a pirate captain, a situation which in a movie from a parallel genre would call for the heavy to ask Jack Sparrow to take off all his clothes so that there'll be no hidden guns or swords...
We may surmise from TAS that the belt contains the basics for replenishing breathing air; probably the similarly sized beltpacks that went with the TOS breathing masks had the same capabilities. Endurance is undetermined, but in "Tholian Web" it appeared that even a full spacesuit was running out of air after what only looked like a few hours. An aberration from the norm, or sign of lack of technological progress?
Timo Saloniemi
Those, plus perhaps two spare batteries for each. And possibly two larger units that replace tents. From what we see in TAS, this is robust technology, potentially much more durable and reliable than suits or tents made out of physical material.
Also, from the few TAS appearances of this tech, it seems that it might be intended for brief/emergency use only. The only time we see it used in conventional spacewalking is when doing a hostage exchange with a pirate captain, a situation which in a movie from a parallel genre would call for the heavy to ask Jack Sparrow to take off all his clothes so that there'll be no hidden guns or swords...
We may surmise from TAS that the belt contains the basics for replenishing breathing air; probably the similarly sized beltpacks that went with the TOS breathing masks had the same capabilities. Endurance is undetermined, but in "Tholian Web" it appeared that even a full spacesuit was running out of air after what only looked like a few hours. An aberration from the norm, or sign of lack of technological progress?
Timo Saloniemi
Ah yes, how do we explain the lack of use of the life support belt after TAS without removing TAS from canon?
I'm gonna go with it being discovered not long after introduction that it had the nasty habit of causing some nasty health issue after prolonged use. Thus the technology was shelved.
I'm gonna go with it being discovered not long after introduction that it had the nasty habit of causing some nasty health issue after prolonged use. Thus the technology was shelved.
Their absence during TOS would be rather easily explained even if they weren't a post-TOS invention. As said, they are used in emergencies, often within Class M environments, while "conventional spacewalks" are not really seen in TAS. TOS in turn shows "conventional spacewalks" in vacuum or in hostile atmosphere, rightly with the help of full spacesuits, but IIRC only two situations where obvious environmental hazards are braved: "Naked Time" (where some sort of thermal protection wear is seen) and "Squire of Gothos" (where we see breathing masks). That our heroes failed to use life support belts there is probably not crucial: the belts might be what one grabs when an excursion is unplanned, whereas orange coveralls and hood are more comfortable to wear in the long term and the garment of choice when one knows one's going to do subzero for the next hour.
I could imagine many reasons why one wouldn't constantly operate a life support belt as portrayed in TAS. The glow might irritate one's eyes unduly. There could be a high-pitched noise that grows unbearable after a while (at least for some). Actual health hazards might be minimal, but mere irritation would be enough of a reason not to use the things outside emergencies.
They would still be standard gear in ST:TMP, as prominently seen worn on the characters... ST2 would be the first time we see physical clothing that looks less comfortable than the TOS uniforms and is seemingly designed to protect from the environment, namely the heavy field jackets. Perhaps that's the juncture where life support belts were abandoned, more out of a fashion sense than out of a dire medical or technical or practical need?
That is, I'd see the belts as a household aid, perhaps originally designed as a gadget'y umbrella or raincoat for civilian use. The military would have a profound disdain for that (uniformed soldiers and umbrellas rarely mix), but would briefly dabble in the fashion for a while nevertheless. Calling it a "technology" would be glorifying it...
The belts might remain in use in various contexts, but Starfleet wouldn't be one of those.
Timo Saloniemi
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
Also, a suit can't "short out" on you.
The belts were experimental tech, from everything I've been able to read about them. The experiment was deemed a failure for whatever reason.
Problem solved.
The thing is, it can. Without the cooperation of potentially delicate, power-consuming equipment, a spacesuit will kill you; total reliance on machinery is there just as much as with forcefield-based solutions.
Furthermore, a suit can be torn, at least theoretically; a forcefield cannot, at least theoretically. A suit has joints and seals; a forcefield doesn't. A suit poses limitations on reach, visibility and access; a forcefield apparently doesn't. Overall, the life support belt might be the significantly more reliable choice out of the two.
The life support belt didn't fail our TAS heroes. One wonders how it could have failed somebody else, and thus been declared a failure. Or was use of the belt the reason our heroes looked a decade older than they should in ST:TMP?
Timo Saloniemi
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
No tech is completely safe, but suit tech is safer than field tech because there is a physical item that may still be of use despite losing power. If a suit shuts down on you, you aren't immediately vacced. The belt, if it goes off even for a split second, leaves you exposed to vaccum.
And the TOS suits weren't all that cumbersome, except for that stupid helmet assembly.
Since the tech went away and was never seen again, I would say that the fact is that it wasn't.
Our heroes have "heroes luck", I guess. Of course physical failure is only one option. Perhaps it was simply that people could not get used to the idea of being in vaccum or another hostile environment without SOME physical barrier between them and it.
Or was use of the belt the reason our heroes looked a decade older than they should in ST:TMP?
There is absolutely no justification for such an assumption.
I'm not quite convinced this would be true. Loss of power in a field device might be a more survivable event than a tear in a suit if the average power loss tended to happen more slowly than the average tear. Since we don't know much about the tech, we don't know much about its failure modes, either.
Also, every power source seems compatible with every application in Starfleet. It might be significantly easier to find additional power than suit patches, and significantly faster to apply the former remedy than the latter.
When an emergency technology goes invisible, the other likely explanation is that it got perfected. Perhaps the functionality is housed in the commbadges now? ("A Fistful of Datas" all but confirms it, actually!)
It does beat all other explanations for those belt buckles, though, such as the asinine notion that Big Brother would use that bulky lump for monitoring our heroes' heartbeat.
Also, if those belt buckles did provide emergency breathing and vacuum protection, Kirk and his friends would look a bit less suicidal when taking a "wing walk" at the end of the movie.
Timo Saloniemi
Slightly OT, but I've always thought that there should be hardcopy manuals/schematics and some sort of portable light source stored behind any access panel aboard ship/shuttle. For example: when Uhura pulls the access panel off under her communications station on the bridge, there should be velcored to the back of the panel a flashlight (or whatever they use in the 23rd and a half century) and a hardcopy systems manual for that station, or at least a schematic diagram thereof.
My thinking here is that if you've lost all power and such, it won't hurt to have a back-up to work with. I mean if the alien space wedgie that just killed all your ship's power is that powerful, there's a good chance that your tricorders and PADDs and stuff are porbably geeked, too.
My thinking here is that if you've lost all power and such, it won't hurt to have a back-up to work with. I mean if the alien space wedgie that just killed all your ship's power is that powerful, there's a good chance that your tricorders and PADDs and stuff are porbably geeked, too.
Here is a compromise: One or two EVA suits for harsher environments. Life support belts for everyone else. This saves space, and allows shuttlecraft repair options. Wasn't there a drawing of TNG uniforms with a membrane that could be pulled out from the collar. Also, I remember the ARA book on flying saucers about Earths twin. There, a heavy 'gas' was pumped out as a membrane, and then a lighter oxygen envelope inflated under this form fitting layer that didn't need fittings or joins, and could flow around sharp objects so one didn't need to tape edges and what not.
So what I would suggest is something similar, with a life suuport belt supply, and only a couple of EVA suits, and a quick bag of supplies. Thermal garments with the TNG would be pressure fit into chair cusions just in case. This wouldn't take up a lot of room.
So what I would suggest is something similar, with a life suuport belt supply, and only a couple of EVA suits, and a quick bag of supplies. Thermal garments with the TNG would be pressure fit into chair cusions just in case. This wouldn't take up a lot of room.
Makes a lot of sense. Also, even though TOS usually showed the shuttle carrying something close to a full landing party, TNG and later shows had the shuttles perform missions mainly with just two crew, plus sometimes passengers who weren't "mission specialists" but mere self-loading cargo. They also carried two full EVA suits, at least in VOY. Providing "proper" suits for two, plus barebones survival means for the rest, might be quite practical in that respect as well.
I wonder if there were "hardsuits" in the TOS era, in addition to the quick-to-don, easily stored soft coverall type suits we saw... The former might be stored aboard the mothership for serious work, while two of the latter might very well be part of the shuttlecraft arsenal.
Timo Saloniemi
I wonder if there were "hardsuits" in the TOS era, in addition to the quick-to-don, easily stored soft coverall type suits we saw... The former might be stored aboard the mothership for serious work, while two of the latter might very well be part of the shuttlecraft arsenal.
Timo Saloniemi
I'm thinking they might at last have the old bottlesuits in Pike's era still, before flexible metal mesh. Something like the Jim suits or WASP suits married with force field belts for Venus type excursions, with the metal accordian bellows float like what we saw in, ah, EXODUS EARTH I believe.
This might also be a use of the armored shuttle or aquashuttle, which would be fitted with a diver lock-out as on the old Johnson's Sea Link. One of the reasons I wanted a drawing of the TAS Enterprise. A longer shuttlebay might hold more shuttles.
Whats more, a Venus type planet actually could have floating cities although they would only have to be at Earth's sea level atmospheric pressure to float. It might look like this:
http://www.id.iit.edu/externalID/index.php?id=1010
This might also be a use of the armored shuttle or aquashuttle, which would be fitted with a diver lock-out as on the old Johnson's Sea Link. One of the reasons I wanted a drawing of the TAS Enterprise. A longer shuttlebay might hold more shuttles.
Whats more, a Venus type planet actually could have floating cities although they would only have to be at Earth's sea level atmospheric pressure to float. It might look like this:
http://www.id.iit.edu/externalID/index.php?id=1010
