Starfleet needed the Klingon war to happen

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Groppler Zorn, May 9, 2018.

  1. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This reminds me of posts I've seen here saying things like:

    "McCoy said Zephram Cochrane disappeared 150 years ago. That's not 2119, but 2117!"
    or
    "Janeway said 'a hundred and fifty people aboard,' but it should really be more like 145."

    Or the Romulan war. Why is it presumed to have taken place precisely in the year 2156?

    Admiral Cornwall is referencing an event that was a century ago, that we saw. Otherwise there's no need to use the reference in the first place.
     
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  2. the Sisko

    the Sisko Commander Red Shirt

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    Archer's stepping foot on Kronos was a big deal. It began an era of exploration for Earth's startfleet, as they established an identity beyond being a Vulcan puppet state... an identity that would see Earth become the center of alpha quadrant affairs in a decade.

    The real context, that the use (3 years after Archer visited Kronos) of Section 31 and Enterprise (and Columbia) to destabilize the Klingon empire, removing a major player from interstellar affairs for a century is likely not public information in either the Federation or Empire.

    Carol Marcus's "Keeping the peace" seemed to speak to the peace between militaristic elements and it's scientists, as it was in context of Reliant coming to conscript their work.
     
  3. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Basically the opposite. Cornwell wouldn't bother adding the "nearly" bit unless she specifically wanted to say it is not a full century yet.

    That is, we get specific information here, and either the speaker is in error or then what she gives us should be taken as accurate rather than approximate. The opposite is true when a speaker uses round numbers to begin with, and does not add definers.

    Oh, that is purely ENT canon nowadays. No other show gave us any way to judge whether the round numbers from "Balance of Terror" were being rounded up or down. But ENT S4 shows and tells the War did not take place before 2155. That leaves a narrow window until we hit the plausibility limits of "they were rounding up", and folks don't want the War to be narrow.

    Perhaps DSC will fill in the missing pieces and tell for good that the War was after ENT bulk but before 2161? Or perhaps it will tell the War only started after "These Are the Voyages"? But so far, "exactly a century before the TOS episode that said a century" is confirmed as our solid early limit to the war, even if not as the late limit. Perhaps the Praetor wanted to launch his attack on a memorable day?

    But Archer then revisited in "Judgment", supposedly. So Cornwell would be wrong about the last time being a big deal, if that were what she wanted to convey. And we still lack a reason for why nobody else went there again, as Archer's onscreen exploits did not close any Klingon doors, but rather opened them (including prison doors, meaning even Klingon hostility shouldn't keep Earthlings out).

    Depends on how it happened, if it happened... If Archer did that, then Cornwell really would be within her rights to bring it up exactly here!

    Now that's an intriguing take... Makes good sense, I guess.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  4. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's not stated in the episode itself, but according to all the behind the scenes information, Archer's trial in Judgment in fact takes place on Narendra III.
     
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  5. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Makes sense again - Klingon courtroom design could well be standardized, much like the US "capitol" look.

    We're still missing the bit where Klingons stop Feds from traipsing on Klingon ground, though, and we sort of need this for explaining the supposed impact/impetus of Cornwell's speech. Archer didn't get mankind banished from Klingon soil in either "Broken Bow" or "Judgment", and kept visiting Klingon colonies till the last (in the process demonstrating lots of different ways to defeat Klingon attempts at stopping such visits, too). A visit different from all the ones we saw would still be welcome, then.

    Timo Saloniemi