Starfleet is a Space Navy (military fleet)

[The Green Monster]

Something occurred to me.

"Solider" may mean differently in the 23rd and 24th centuries than it does in 19th-21st centuries. Word meanings/usage do change over time.

 

[GabyBee]

Again, does not explicitly identify Starfleet as a military organization.

 

[King Bob!]

Neither of those things explicitly identify Starfleet itself as a military organization.

So you believe that the Federation unleashes scientists with weapons that can destroy worlds? For defense?

 

[GabyBee]

So you believe that the Federation unleashes scientists with weapons that can destroy worlds? For defense?

Phasers and photon torpedoes are not solely weapons. They have been used just as often for scientific endeavors, whether to affect a change in a planet's atmosphere, or to break apart asteroids for geological research.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

What about all the times we see them used as the military and stated they are the military and soldiers?

They've been COMPARED to soldiers and even, by extension, military organizations. Those comparisons usually involve extreme circumstances or people with an axe to grind against Starfleet. Or BOTH.

OTOH, there are several times we have been told explicitly "Starfleet is not a military organization" and exactly no times we have been told that it IS. So it is literally true that Starfleet "is not a military organization" and simply does military-type things if and when it is required to.

What about all the wars they fight?

"Fighting a war" does not make one part of a military, as the Minutemen adequately proved during the Revolutionary War.

 

[King Bob!]

The Dutch East India company used to do it all the time.

In fact, there was a time in colonial history when the East India company controlled a larger navy than most countries.

Because they were representative of the Dutch in the region, essentially they were the government and military.

 

[King Bob!]

Phasers and photon torpedoes are not solely weapons. They have been used just as often for scientific endeavors, whether to affect a change in a planet's atmosphere, or to break apart asteroids for geological research.

They have General Order 24 on their books. An order designed to destroy all life on a planet...

 

[Crazy Eddie]

So you believe that the Federation unleashes scientists with weapons that can destroy worlds? For defense?

Absolutely. Who else would you trust with the power to destroy entire worlds if not a scientist?

 

[GabyBee]

They have General Order 24 on their books. An order designed to destroy all life on a planet...

Again, does not explicitly state that Starfleet is a military organization.

Or, in other words...

there are several times we have been told explicitly "Starfleet is not a military organization" and exactly no times we have been told that it IS.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

Because they were representative of the Dutch in the region, essentially they were the government and military.

"Essentially" is the key point here. The company was a private, for-profit enterprise (no pun intended) that ACTED as the military and ACTED as the government.

But "the military" is defined by the role it plays in politics, not the role it plays on or off the battlefield. The military can do many things, and lots of people can do the military's thing. But what makes a military is a GOVERNMENT, and something the government decides isn't the military, isn't the military.

None of that is really up for debate. Star Trek has been VERY explicit as to what Starfleet is and isn't. The only unanswered is "Why isn't Starfleet a military organization?"

 

[King Bob!]

None of that is really up for debate. Star Trek has been VERY explicit as to what Starfleet is and isn't. The only unanswered is "Why isn't Starfleet a military organization?"

There's nothing outside of two lines of dialogue that you can answer that question with.

 

[fireproof78]

Kirk states he is a soldier and offers the Organians "military aid" in "Errand of Mercy".

This quote, David Marcus' comment about allowing the "military" to take Genesis away.

However, I also stumbled upon a great quote from a novel-not canocical, but sums up this issue rather well:
“Admiral, we’re both part of Starfleet,” Kirk began after a long moment. “Perhaps the question is not whether or not we have to label ourselves as a military organization or a science organization. Perhaps we should just say we’re Starfleet and leave it at that. Something new. A label all its own. Let the conflict go.

 

[King Bob!]

This quote, David Marcus' comment about allowing the "military" to take Genesis away.

However, I also stumbled upon a great quote from a novel-not canocical, but sums up this issue rather well:
“Admiral, we’re both part of Starfleet,” Kirk began after a long moment. “Perhaps the question is not whether or not we have to label ourselves as a military organization or a science organization. Perhaps we should just say we’re Starfleet and leave it at that. Something new. A label all its own. Let the conflict go.

You must be on the same page as me, I just saw that quote!

SISKO: Do you think other Federation worlds are going to sit back and let their President be replaced by a military dictatorship?

 

[Crazy Eddie]

There's nothing outside of two lines of dialogue that you can answer that question with.

Actually, the answer is pretty obvious, despite your ideological objection to it.

Starfleet is a paramilitary exploration service whose primary mission include peaceful exploration and scientific research, contact with new life forms and new civilizations, the charting of unexplored space, peacekeeping, law enforcement, defensive combat, regional/territorial security and humanitarian aid. They specialize primary in exploration and research, with most other duties being secondary or situational.

There is no reason, historical, legal or operational, why an organization that fills these roles MUST be a military. Non-military organizations can and do perform ALL of the above missions. So saying "Starfleet is not a military organization" is exactly as valid as saying "Starfleet is not a baseball team."

For that matter, while Starfleet does, for some reason, operate schools and educate students on its ships and bases, it also isn't a "public school."

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

“Admiral, we’re both part of Starfleet,” Kirk began after a long moment. “Perhaps the question is not whether or not we have to label ourselves as a military organization or a science organization. Perhaps we should just say we’re Starfleet and leave it at that. Something new. A label all its own. Let the conflict go.

What novel was that from?

 

[GabyBee]

There's nothing outside of two lines of dialogue that you can answer that question with.

"Starfleet is not a military organisation. It is a scientific research and diplomatic body." ~ TNG Writer's Guide

“This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers.” ~ Scotty, Star Trek: Into Darkness

"ARCHER: You may want to find someone with more field experience, a MACO. "
"ERIKA: I'm not sure how I feel about a military officer on the Bridge."
~ Star Trek: Enterprise, "Home"

 

[fireproof78]

You must be on the same page as me, I just saw that quote!

Nice
I'm sticking with my original answer: C.

What novel was that from?

I believe it is this one"Federation"

 

[King Bob!]

Actually, the answer is pretty obvious, despite your ideological objection to it.

There's nothing ideological about it. Its about taking the preponderance of evidence over two lines of dialogue.

Perhaps you are the one with the ideological hurdle? A dislike for the military is coloring your judgement...

 

[GabyBee]

A dislike for the military is coloring your judgement...

Please do not speculate on personal opinions or prejudices. Both of my parents served in the military. My mother served as a nurse in the Spanish Army, and my father served in the United States Air Force for 27 years, retiring with the rank of Colonel in 1996.

 

[King Bob!]

"Starfleet is not a military organisation. It is a scientific research and diplomatic body." ~ TNG Writer's Guide

The preponderance of evidence says that Starfleet is the military.

"ARCHER: You may want to find someone with more field experience, a MACO. "
"ERIKA: I'm not sure how I feel about a military officer on the Bridge."
~ Star Trek: Enterprise, "Home"

Enterprise was its own thing, depicting the Earth (not Federation) Starfleet.