Starfleet Academy / headquarters / assembly room

[propita]

I used to not really want to visit Frisco, thinking that all these ST characters used to "be" there and had all their little favorite places--and I didn't know my way around. I know, they're fictional characters. But after decades of having them as part of my life, they feel kinda real, you know? And I felt kinda left out of all the "cool kids."

Yeah, I know. Fictional characters--but I was a kid when this all started, and that feeling just kinda stayed.

But now, I love Frisco (and I know many hate it being called that, but I was raised in the LA area--and if Los Angeles can be called "LA," San Francisco can be called "Frisco" or "San Pancho"). Each neighborhood is a separate area to enjoy and become familiar with. It's not one big city, it's a bunch of little neighborhoods. Pick one and get to know it--as Hubby and I did on our last trip there.

After feeling uncomfortable in Frisco for so long, like I didn't fit in, I would move there in a minute if it was affordable.

 

[Maurice]

^^^But do people in Los Angeles call it L.A.? Cause people here in S.F. don't call it Frisco.

Some of you are totally overreacting to these apparent geographic glitches. From what I've seen there is only one shot of the city that seems at odds with the others, and that's presuming it's supposed to be the same staircase seen in an earlier shot (and despite the fact they filmed both scenes on the same stairs, that doesn't mean they're supposed to be the same building...heck the Embacadero center here consists of four nearly identical skyscrapers that cover many blocks).

Historically, San Francisco had multiple concurrent Army bases in and around it in the past (Presidio, Fort Mason, Fort Funston, for instance), so it's not illogical to assume there would be different Starfleet facilities around the city.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I grew up in the South Bay, so we always called in "The City".

Star Trek fans over reacting??? Perish the the thought!

 

[Sector 7]

I know you're tired of hearing this, but it's just another case where the creators of this movie just didn't fucking care.

Yep, and woop di do why should they, and why should we?

Who assumes that SFA is just on one patch of ground? There could be buildings all over the city.

Because for 150 million dollars, this simply sucks. Jackson did the three LotR movies for 90 millions each and WETA showed a LOT more attention to detail for all the visual effects shots.
Consistently, this entire film has been designed for looks only and not for making sense. I prefer movies to be both (and at that budget, I expect them to be, because I've already seen cheaper movies which achieved that).

You started bashing this movie before a single photo was ever released. We are not surprised you are still bashing it. There is nothing new here.

 

[propita]

^^^But do people in Los Angeles call it L.A.? Cause people here in S.F. don't call it Frisco.

I grew up in Pasadena and called it LA. Dad grew up in East LA and called it LA.

And I've heard that San Franciscans don't like "Frisco."

I grew up in the South Bay, so we always called in "The City".

You mean "the South Bay" as in San Francisco Bay, right? In LA, "South Bay" is around LAX and points south (like El Segundo, Redondo Beach, etc).

 

[Nerys Myk]

^^^But do people in Los Angeles call it L.A.? Cause people here in S.F. don't call it Frisco.

I grew up in Pasadena and called it LA. Dad grew up in East LA and called it LA.

And I've heard that San Franciscans don't like "Frisco."

I grew up in the South Bay, so we always called in "The City".

You mean "the South Bay" as in San Francisco Bay, right? In LA, "South Bay" is around LAX and points south (like El Segundo, Redondo Beach, etc).

Yep, San Jose.

 

[Devon]

Because for 150 million dollars, this simply sucks.

So you imply that the budget matters....

Jackson did the three LotR movies for 90 millions each and WETA showed a LOT more attention to detail for all the visual effects shots.
Consistently, this entire film has been designed for looks only and not for making sense. I prefer movies to be both (and at that budget, I expect them to be, because I've already seen cheaper movies which achieved that).

Then imply the budget doesn't matter. So the film's budget isn't of relevance.

 

[Sabataage]

I know you're tired of hearing this, but it's just another case where the creators of this movie just didn't fucking care.

Yep, and woop di do why should they, and why should we?

Who assumes that SFA is just on one patch of ground? There could be buildings all over the city.

Because for 150 million dollars, this simply sucks. Jackson did the three LotR movies for 90 millions each and WETA showed a LOT more attention to detail for all the visual effects shots.
Consistently, this entire film has been designed for looks only and not for making sense. I prefer movies to be both (and at that budget, I expect them to be, because I've already seen cheaper movies which achieved that).

At the time of release, outraged astronomers complained about one glaring mistake in the film Titanic: the night's sky was all wrong during the ship's sinking. The visble constellations were incorrect for that part of that world and the time of year, plus some of the shots of the sky were flipped. So not only were they the wrong stars, but they were facing the wrong way! James Cameron's comment? 'The movie grossed over a biilion dollars. Can you imagine how much more that would have been if we got the sky right?'

Oh no! A Hollywood movie got geography wrong! Scandal!

 

[JarodRussell]

Because for 150 million dollars, this simply sucks.

So you imply that the budget matters....

Jackson did the three LotR movies for 90 millions each and WETA showed a LOT more attention to detail for all the visual effects shots.
Consistently, this entire film has been designed for looks only and not for making sense. I prefer movies to be both (and at that budget, I expect them to be, because I've already seen cheaper movies which achieved that).

Then imply the budget doesn't matter. So the film's budget isn't of relevance.

Totally wrong, Devon, as always.

 

[Devon]

Because for 150 million dollars, this simply sucks.

So you imply that the budget matters....

Jackson did the three LotR movies for 90 millions each and WETA showed a LOT more attention to detail for all the visual effects shots.
Consistently, this entire film has been designed for looks only and not for making sense. I prefer movies to be both (and at that budget, I expect them to be, because I've already seen cheaper movies which achieved that).

Then imply the budget doesn't matter. So the film's budget isn't of relevance.

Totally wrong, Devon, as always.

Not in your wildest dreams kid.

 

[JarodRussell]

You started bashing this movie before a single photo was ever released. We are not surprised you are still bashing it. There is nothing new here.

JarodRussell's Join Date: July 2, 2009
Star Trek's Release Date: May 6, 2009

 

[M'Sharak]

I wondered whether I ought to point that out.

Plus, all but one of those screencap and/or promo images were on the web and under discussion here well before the movie was released.

 

[Maurice]

I just looked at the film again tonight...and realized something that I hadn't noticed when looking at these screencaps previously. To wit: two of the images are frames from two parts of the same shot

First, Kirk and Bones come down the stairs, and we see the Golden Gate Bridge in the background.

The camera circles around a bit and ends on this angle of Bones walking away with the Transamerica Pyramid in shot.

Well...no.

You can't see the Bridge and the Pyramid from those angles from the same place. Not only that, even if you could see the Pyramid like that, it's rotated the wrong way compared to its actual facing. So, yes, they boofed the geography (no big surprise). So, what I identified earlier are the points from which they shot the angles used to make the backgrounds, but they're two different elements stitched together.

 

[GodThingFormerly]

The camera circles around a bit and http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/xihd/trekxihd0726.jpg ends on this angle of Bones walking away with the Transamerica Pyramid in shot.

"In the far distance, the distinctively pointed shape of the old TRANSAMERICA BUILDING. Everywhere else, the San Francisco urban sprawl is totally gone, replaced by lovely groves of large trees, green meadows, streams, lakes, and crystal clear air. (There still exists a small San Francisco "Living Museum" city but it is far enough away to be hidden by trees and will not appear in this story.) Here, as in much of the world, people live mostly in the climate-controlled, colorful and efficient "subterra cities." All industry and transport is now underground. Clearly Earth has become the home of a people who love and protect their living planet." - Star Trek: The Motion Picture Draft Screenplay by Gene Roddenberry (1978).

"If we have the opportunity to see Earth, we will discover that it has been largely returned to its natural state. Lush forests and barren deserts are preserved in pollution-free purity. Industry, commerce and transportation facilities are predominately underground so that the surface of the planet can be a place to be enjoyed." - 23rd century Earth: Context for Enterprise Crew by Phase II Script Editor/ST:TMP Associate Producer Jon Povill (1977).

BTW, the bulbous structure ahead and to the right of McCoy(?) in that screencap looks suspiciously like Santiago Calatrava's L'Hemisfèric theatre in Valencia, Spain.

SLR

 

[Mach5]

"In the far distance, the distinctively pointed shape of the old TRANSAMERICA BUILDING. Everywhere else, the San Francisco urban sprawl is totally gone, replaced by lovely groves of large trees, green meadows, streams, lakes, and crystal clear air.

So where the hell would the 23rd century San Franciscans live and work then?

I gues, since this urban sprawl is still there in TMP, someone probably talked some sense into Roddenberry...

If San Francisco really was the future capital of not only Earth, but the entire Federation, its population would have been enormous!

 

[GodThingFormerly]

So where the hell would the 23rd century San Franciscans live and work then?

Did you manage to read the rest of the quote?

I gues, since this urban sprawl is still there in TMP...

Not in the original matte painting it isn't. The aboveground portion of the city is just a thin strip stretching along the northern coast of the peninsula as can be seen from orbit (the Golden Gate Bridge is left of the workbee cargo train and the city is just to the left of that).

...someone probably talked some sense into Roddenberry...

The term "subterra city" appears in Gunnar Birkert's brochure Subterranean Urban Systems (University of Michigan, 1974), so I daresay that GR pilfered from the very best when it came to conceptualizing in detail 23rd century Earth.

If San Francisco really was the future capital of not only Earth, but the entire Federation, its population would have been enormous!

I thought DS9 established that Paris, France was the "Capital City of the UFP" (not that I ever watched the show). If J.J. Abrams relocated it to SF... well, I really don't know what to say.

SLR

 

[Mach5]

Yeah, that "underground" thing sounds a bit silly to me, sorry. Unappealing too, but that's just the future civil engineer talking...

BTW, isn't the UFP capital supposed to be the Earth itself, with San Francisco being the home of the Federation council, with the office of the president located in Paris?

 

[GodThingFormerly]

Yeah, that "underground" thing sounds a bit silly to me, sorry. Unappealing too, but that's just the future civil engineer talking...

You really should do a little research on the subject before dismissing it. Two volumes I found particularly instructive (besides the aforementioned Birkerts monograph) are:

* Geo-Space Urban Design by Gideon S. Golany & Toshio Ojima (Wiley, 1996).

* Underground Space Design by John Carmody & Raymond Sterling (Van Nostrand Reinhold, 1993).

Not only does moving infrastructure underground while leaving residential habitats and outdoor recreational facilities on the surface preserve the biosphere, having several tens or hundreds of meters of bedrock above your head can also come in quite useful for comfortably surviving solar superflares, galactic supernovae and even the occasional alien orbital bombardment.

BTW, isn't the UFP capital supposed to be the Earth itself, with San Francisco being the home of the Federation council, with the office of the president located in Paris?

I honestly have no idea as my interest in and knowledge of Trek terminates rather abruptly after ST:TMP.

SLR

 

[Mach5]

The idea of underground industry and transport sounds OK, but commerce? I believe in green (energy efficient) architecture and engineering, utilization of new building materials and technologies, all that stuff... Or maybe I've been watching too much "Megastrustures"...

I'll check out those books, though... They sound interesting.

 

[M'Sharak]

I just looked at the film again tonight...and realized something that I hadn't noticed when looking at these screencaps previously. To wit: two of the images are frames from two parts of the same shot

First, Kirk and Bones come down the stairs, and we see the Golden Gate Bridge in the background.

The camera circles around a bit and ends on this angle of Bones walking away with the Transamerica Pyramid in shot.

Well...no.

You can't see the Bridge and the Pyramid from those angles from the same place. Not only that, even if you could see the Pyramid like that, it's rotated the wrong way compared to its actual facing. So, yes, they boofed the geography (no big surprise). So, what I identified earlier are the points from which they shot the angles used to make the backgrounds, but they're two different elements stitched together.

Not only that, but the bridge seen in the background of the Kirk/McCoy shot doesn't seem to match its position in the later scene featuring the Giant Space Drill attack. San Francisco's layout becomes truly fluid in the future; public transit must be a wild ride, possibly rivaling the car chase from Bullitt in geographical absurdity.

BTW, isn't the UFP capital supposed to be the Earth itself, with San Francisco being the home of the Federation council, with the office of the president located in Paris?

Earth as Capital and President's office in Paris, yes, with Starfleet Academy's main campus in San Francisco and Starfleet HQ across the bridge in Sausalito. The location of the Federation Council chambers is a bit more tricky to pin down, but the Council is said on at least one occasion to be meeting in San Francisco.