News Starfleet Academy Coming to P+
- Thread starter Tuskin38
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Ok.
Different strokes, Different folks. Not seeing the parody angle, and I'll admit my own bias for crying since I was teased as a young man for doing so.
Oh I cry all the time as well. I am not ashamed of it. Not even see it as a bad thing for drama either. You just to do it in a way that feels earned and not something that feels like a soap opera. I liked for example when Picard cried in "Family" after no longer being able to keep his feelings in over what the Borg did to him. I wish Voyager had made Tuvix cry at the end and not just sort of forgive the crew. I would have gone for a even harder gut punch ending to the episode.
I know I have cried lots of time during movies. 3 moments that always get me is when Spock dies in Wrath of Khan. The funeral scene in "My Girl" after Culkin dies. Also in TItantic. That scene were the ship has sunk and you hear all the people screaming and in fear while in the freezing water.
I know I have cried lots of time during movies. 3 moments that always get me is when Spock dies in Wrath of Khan. The funeral scene in "My Girl" after Culkin dies. Also in TItantic. That scene were the ship has sunk and you hear all the people screaming and in fear while in the freezing water.
I think it's fair to say middle aged white guys were not the target audience for Discovery. That was Picard season 3.
That's true but that doesn't mean much in the end. I feel good entertainment always finds fans outside of it's target audience. I love "Crazy Ex GIrlfriend" and "Atlanta" and "Ms Marvel" and plenty other shows of that nature. None of them in theory were made with me in mind as a viewer. You can also apply this idea to lots of children shows. "Toy Story" was for kids but of course adults like it. The funniest example might be Trek's "Prodigy." Totally made for kids yet I suspect more 40 something year olds are watching it than actual kids.
Which was probably why Paramount+ cancelled it.
IMHO, the issue with Michael's monologuing is how many times she speaks aloud when no one else is around. Or like the scene this season in Face the Strange, where she monologued to her unconscious past self when there was a ticking clock.
These scenes violate the core show vs tell rule for filmed media. The scene should be carried by Michael's actions, and not need dialogue. Often she's just narrating things which are painfully obvious and/or saying aloud what she's doing. Which Trek has a long history of, but when it's a bridge scene or something, you can excuse it as one character telling the other what they're doing. That falls away if a character is alone.
To be clear, I'm not talking about personal logs. They have a long history in Trek, and don't cause suspension of disbelief to be erased. It's more like the opening of Season 3, or the finale inside the progenitor pocket dimension. The scenes would just work better if Michael explored them in awe with near silence.
These scenes violate the core show vs tell rule for filmed media. The scene should be carried by Michael's actions, and not need dialogue. Often she's just narrating things which are painfully obvious and/or saying aloud what she's doing. Which Trek has a long history of, but when it's a bridge scene or something, you can excuse it as one character telling the other what they're doing. That falls away if a character is alone.
To be clear, I'm not talking about personal logs. They have a long history in Trek, and don't cause suspension of disbelief to be erased. It's more like the opening of Season 3, or the finale inside the progenitor pocket dimension. The scenes would just work better if Michael explored them in awe with near silence.
It's cute that you think Star Trek hasn't been melodrama since day one
Mash did this all the time.
Okay. I did watch MASH as a kid a bit, but have very little memory of it.
That said, I think it's important to note that TV has slowly been shifting over the last few generations from the storytelling mode of theatre to that of cinema.
TV started out as a very dialogue-driven format. This is in part because TV sets were very low-resolution and small compared to movie screens, meaning the script had to carry almost everything, rather than the camerawork. This can be seen very strongly if you watch TOS - or rather listen to it - as the stories mostly work just fine as radio plays, with the dialogue and audio alone enough to follow the story.
As time has worn on, TV production qualities have improved massively, to the point there's little difference in quality between the top end of TV and cinema now. And Discovery is absolutely a show that wants to be - for lack of a better term - cinematic. Yet, I find there are many places across the series where the script feels anxious about silence - not willing to let the landscape and facial expressions alone convey the mood, and feels the need to explicitly say something a person of reasonable intelligence would understand.
Off the top of my head, something like the first season of the Mandalorian is a good example of cinematic dialogue done right. Dialogue is often sparing - only inserted when a character has something important to say. The direction lets the silence and the landscape get across much of the message instead.
OTOH, with something which is more low-budget and keeps to TV-style production (like say, The Orville) having empty space filled with dialogue, or even monologue, doesn't feel as out of place, because there is little attempt at being "cinematic."
Ok...I guess. I take shows as they come and I see both styles. For me, what works, is do I believe the characters and why they are saying it.
Now, coming from a theater background maybe I'm biased. But, talking to yourself in a show? Doesn't make drama less.
IMHO the most important thing with any dialogue (monologue included) is that it's not just saying things for the convenience of the audience, and that it's within character.
Do some people talk to themselves? Sure! Speaking personally, during periods of my life where I was socially isolated, I spoke aloud to myself far more than I do today. But dialogue which doesn't reveal character is, IMHO, kind of a waste.
Hey, as a middle aged white male I resemble that remark!
During DSC when I was rolling my eyes at some things (even though I mostly liked the show, despite the weaknesses) I eventually realized that not every single thing is “for me” and that’s fine. I feel the same way about Everything Everywhere All At Once. I did not enjoy that movie at all but it really isn’t for me. And that’s fine!
I will disagree because because all dialog reveals character.
In my case....
"But like a poor marksman, you keep missing the target"- James T. Kirk
Man, I hated PIC3.
I loved Picard season 3. I mean I see it's flaws but I feel like it was a good way to send TNG out. It basically erased the mistake that was "Nemesis." I think "All Good Things" though is still the best ending for TNG. As for dialogue I think one issue is way to modern shows are trying to sort to nail down that MCU type of speak.
In the end DIscovery just didn't have great writing. It doesn't help that they besides corporate control you had lots of turnover. The people who replaced Fuller even got fired for creating a toxic atmosphere. Then you had the Walter Mosley incident.
In the end DIscovery just didn't have great writing. It doesn't help that they besides corporate control you had lots of turnover. The people who replaced Fuller even got fired for creating a toxic atmosphere. Then you had the Walter Mosley incident.
I didn't hate it. It was middle of the road, firmly in Average territory.
The Mosley incident was a brilliantly executed case of office politics... Take out by far the most experienced writer on staff. Say what you will about season 1 of that series, but they had a great bench of good writers starting out.
There was an episode that literally featured Hawkeye monologuing for 25 minutes straight after he got a concussion from a Jeep accident to keep himself from falling unconscious.
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