Star Wars - why no subtitles?
- Thread starter Bry_Sinclair
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Relativistic speeds could make the trip seem short to them, and coincidentally give Luke more time to train with Yoda.
I think the old WEG RPG brought in the idea of a slower, limited-range emergency backup hyperdrive to explain that one, FWIW.
But the Falcon is implied to have already changed star systems anyway, since Han had to look up what system they were in. We would assume that he'd know the name of the system that Hoth was part of. (IIRC, it was even referred to as the "Hoth system" in the film.)
Possibly a quick, impromptu jump was made between scenes before the hyperdrive failed, and the Empire successfully followed.
But the Falcon is implied to have already changed star systems anyway, since Han had to look up what system they were in. We would assume that he'd know the name of the system that Hoth was part of. (IIRC, it was even referred to as the "Hoth system" in the film.)
Possibly a quick, impromptu jump was made between scenes before the hyperdrive failed, and the Empire successfully followed.
Right. Sort of like a spare tire. Enough to get you to a habitable system, but you wouldn't want to go across the galaxy on it.
And the asteroid belt is in the Hoth system. There is a line about excessive meteor activity in the system and how that would make it difficult to spot approaching ships.
Exactly. I'd accept most of the rationalizations given here (although the "relativistic speeds" thing is pushing it). But my list used what was shown onscreen to infer the apparent intent of the filmmakers.
It was making the list when I realized that the duration of the film series was longer than the life of the actual Empire. Anyone ever notice that before?
From the transcript of Empire, the Rebels were hiding in the Hoth System.
And later:
In contrast, the dialog indicates the Falcon was in another star system after the pursuit through the asteroids and the hiding on the Star Destroyer...
It doesn't seem probable that the Falcon jumped to the Anoat system after leaving the asteroid field yet before landing on the Star Destroyer.
^ The line [as scripted in Shawnster's post]: "Bespin. It's pretty far, but I think we can make it." more or less lampshades the issue.
One other potential remedy is if the nomenclature of system means planetary system and not (or not necessarily) star system. Wookieepedia pretty much precludes that possibility, though.
One other potential remedy is if the nomenclature of system means planetary system and not (or not necessarily) star system. Wookieepedia pretty much precludes that possibility, though.
That would work, except that the Avenger evidently hadn't jumped yet since the Falcon clamped onto her in the asteroid field. The Star Destroyer fleet was only just breaking up to search for the Falcon at every possible destination along the Falcon's last known trajectory, as ordered by Piett following Vader's instructions, when Han said that he hoped they'd dump their garbage before going to light-speed.
This map of the GFFA shows that Hoth, Bespin and even Dagobah and Endor are all galactic neighbors.
It seems pretty unnecessary for Dagobah to be in the same neighborhood. I got the impression Luke's journey was far.
Then again, I'm of the opinion that Luke trained for several weeks to several months rather than several days.
I don't see anything in what you quoted to suggest that the Millennium Falcon couldn't have jumped to Anoat system when leaving Hoth but was forced to drop to sublight speeds because of the chase. The only problem with that is the idea from the first movie (and earlier in this one) that it was hard to detect someone who jumped to hyperspace.
Then again, I'm of the opinion that Luke trained for several weeks to several months rather than several days.
I don't see anything in what you quoted to suggest that the Millennium Falcon couldn't have jumped to Anoat system when leaving Hoth but was forced to drop to sublight speeds because of the chase. The only problem with that is the idea from the first movie (and earlier in this one) that it was hard to detect someone who jumped to hyperspace.
There's another problem with that. Threepio makes three failed attempts to tell Han something, one of them while they're still on the ground. The fourth time he's able to explain that the hyperspace motivator is damaged (after Han has figured this out for himself).
Now, it's possible to read this as the Falcon making a quick jump to Anoat while Threepio babbles on about something else, then the motivator fails, then Threepio tells him. But that's not really how it comes across onscreen. And as yousaid, it requires that the Empire can immediately track them (or is waiting for them) at Anoat.
Onscreen, to me at least, it simply looks like the Falcon had no FTL when it left Hoth and Threepio knew it. Particularly considering that it was barely able to take off at all. They had to run the blockade the hard way while still in the Hoth system, then they encountered the asteroids ... while still in the Hoth system.
For myself I always rationalized that beyond that point we don't know how long the Falcon was in transit to Bespin. It could have been several months, which allows about the same amount of time for Luke's training. But even then, at sub-light speeds my explanation requires Bespin to be within about one light-year of Hoth. So it's pretty strange that Han totally forgot Lando had settled right next door to the Rebel base and had to look at a map to remember. (And it still doesn't explain the reference to Anoat.)
Now, it's possible to read this as the Falcon making a quick jump to Anoat while Threepio babbles on about something else, then the motivator fails, then Threepio tells him. But that's not really how it comes across onscreen. And as yousaid, it requires that the Empire can immediately track them (or is waiting for them) at Anoat.
Onscreen, to me at least, it simply looks like the Falcon had no FTL when it left Hoth and Threepio knew it. Particularly considering that it was barely able to take off at all. They had to run the blockade the hard way while still in the Hoth system, then they encountered the asteroids ... while still in the Hoth system.
For myself I always rationalized that beyond that point we don't know how long the Falcon was in transit to Bespin. It could have been several months, which allows about the same amount of time for Luke's training. But even then, at sub-light speeds my explanation requires Bespin to be within about one light-year of Hoth. So it's pretty strange that Han totally forgot Lando had settled right next door to the Rebel base and had to look at a map to remember. (And it still doesn't explain the reference to Anoat.)
edit - ninja'd by Silvercrest. That's what I get for having a post on deck too long!
There's another problem with that idea. 3PO noticed that the hyperdrive motivator was damaged, before the blast-off from Hoth. Granted, he couldn't say so, because Han wasn't receptive to being spoken to by 3PO, and then Han repeatedly shut him up as 3PO's trying to point that out became a little running gag. The fact that 3PO never came out and said it until the end of the gag is about all the wiggle-room I see on the idea that they made a small jump immediately after blasting off from Hoth.
From the script at BlueHarvest.net:
Even the idea that "system" means planetary system and not necessarily star system runs into problems, mainly such as why would the Rebels build a secret base on a planet in a star system with other inhabited planets? They wouldn't....
There's another problem with that idea. 3PO noticed that the hyperdrive motivator was damaged, before the blast-off from Hoth. Granted, he couldn't say so, because Han wasn't receptive to being spoken to by 3PO, and then Han repeatedly shut him up as 3PO's trying to point that out became a little running gag. The fact that 3PO never came out and said it until the end of the gag is about all the wiggle-room I see on the idea that they made a small jump immediately after blasting off from Hoth.
From the script at BlueHarvest.net:
Also, I agree with the observation upthread that the excessive meteor activity in the Hoth system was intended to come from the asteroid field; mention of the meteor activity foreshadowed encountering the asteroid field in the absence of any hyperdrive.
Even the idea that "system" means planetary system and not necessarily star system runs into problems, mainly such as why would the Rebels build a secret base on a planet in a star system with other inhabited planets? They wouldn't....
Yowza! And I looked it up on the BlueHarvest transcript, too.
There is also the line from ANH
"She'll make .5 past light"
So does that mean the Falcon's top speed (excluding Hyperspace) is 1.5c? That could help shorten a journey without using hyperspace.
No - it's meant to be a hyperspace reference as implied by the term "make the jump to lightspeed". As such, it can't simply mean 1.5c and must refer to some other kind of scale because that's obviously too slow to make interstellar trips in the timeframe provided.
Unless all the star systems are next to each other. 
You know, all these objections (and my five points from a few pages back) would be explained away if we just assumed that the SW galaxy is really, really small.
Well, except the "parsecs" thing.
You know, all these objections (and my five points from a few pages back) would be explained away if we just assumed that the SW galaxy is really, really small.
Well, except the "parsecs" thing.
I have a different way of looking at the distance disparity between Hoth, Anoad, and Bespin, keeping in mind that this is a fantasy and not science fiction.
First, I accept that these ships are capable of flying to other stars and planets.
Check.
When they say "light speed," they mean "hyperspace" so it may actually not be the technical speed of light. It may be faster.
Most importantly is this: I'll use an analogy. I live in Pennsylvania, maybe two hours from New York City by car. I can drive there. I can also drive to Orlando Florida, but I would get there quicker if took an airplane. Planes are faster than cars. But I can still drive there, but it's a longer journey and would require some endurance. Maybe a few breaks would be needed.
Taking the analogy to Empire, Hoth is where I live, Anoat is New York City, and Bespin is Orlando Florida. The ship (disregarding the science, because Star Wars is not about science) is capable of going to all of these places. It's capable because it's a spaceship. They had no hyper-drive, so it took a bit of maneuvering to escape capture and end up in an asteroid field near the Anoat system, just like if I jumped in my car to pick up a buddy in NYC. Neither case was the trip instant, but it wasn't too bad.
From there, Solo says that Bespin "is pretty far, but I think we can make it." Meaning he doesn't have hyper-drive, so the trip will take some doing. It would be as if the friend I just picked up in NYC had to see a relative right then and there in Orlando, Florida, and the two of of us had to team up for gas and maybe switch on and off for driving. If we had flown (and if the the Falcon's hyper-drive had worked) we would get there quicker, but, yeah, I think we can still make it, despite the rather long distance we had to go.
My analogy holds up, I think. Every ship in Star Wars can go between systems at the speed of the plot, and going light speed just isn't fast enough regardless. It would take nearly 5 years for us to get our nearest star going light speed. My view: these ships can all travel between stars. That's what they do. Accept it.
The only difference is that they would get to Bespin faster and more efficiently if the hyper-drive worked, just like me and my buddy would get to Florida much faster if we took a plane.
First, I accept that these ships are capable of flying to other stars and planets.
Check.
When they say "light speed," they mean "hyperspace" so it may actually not be the technical speed of light. It may be faster.
Most importantly is this: I'll use an analogy. I live in Pennsylvania, maybe two hours from New York City by car. I can drive there. I can also drive to Orlando Florida, but I would get there quicker if took an airplane. Planes are faster than cars. But I can still drive there, but it's a longer journey and would require some endurance. Maybe a few breaks would be needed.
Taking the analogy to Empire, Hoth is where I live, Anoat is New York City, and Bespin is Orlando Florida. The ship (disregarding the science, because Star Wars is not about science) is capable of going to all of these places. It's capable because it's a spaceship. They had no hyper-drive, so it took a bit of maneuvering to escape capture and end up in an asteroid field near the Anoat system, just like if I jumped in my car to pick up a buddy in NYC. Neither case was the trip instant, but it wasn't too bad.
From there, Solo says that Bespin "is pretty far, but I think we can make it." Meaning he doesn't have hyper-drive, so the trip will take some doing. It would be as if the friend I just picked up in NYC had to see a relative right then and there in Orlando, Florida, and the two of of us had to team up for gas and maybe switch on and off for driving. If we had flown (and if the the Falcon's hyper-drive had worked) we would get there quicker, but, yeah, I think we can still make it, despite the rather long distance we had to go.
My analogy holds up, I think. Every ship in Star Wars can go between systems at the speed of the plot, and going light speed just isn't fast enough regardless. It would take nearly 5 years for us to get our nearest star going light speed. My view: these ships can all travel between stars. That's what they do. Accept it.
The only difference is that they would get to Bespin faster and more efficiently if the hyper-drive worked, just like me and my buddy would get to Florida much faster if we took a plane.
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It's a good analogy in general terms, except that if my understanding's correct, a more accurate analogy would be that Bespin would be in Paris, France (or anywhere else in Europe) rather than Florida. There's just no way for your car to practically get there on its own power, just as my understanding is that a non-FTL vehicle can't practically get from Hoth to Bespin.
