Star Wars TV - live action VS animated

[Temis the Vorta]

They can animate faces realistically enough that the characters' expressions are capable of evoking emotional reaction as well as any live-action actor

I like animated Anakin much much MUCH better than live-action (maybe I should put that in quotes) Anakin. There have been several moments when I found myself happy, worried, fearful or touched by something that happened in TCW, which just reminded me of the total emotional void I felt during all of the PT (unless annoyance counts as an emotion). Or it could the that my standards have taken a hit because of the PT.

And I know why Lucas is intentionally making the animation stylized and not attempting photorealism: it's because animation hasn't yet achieved the ability to create absolutely convincing human faces, and to approach realistic human faces gets you into the "uncanny valley" that causes intense negative emotional reactions from people - it's freaky to see faces like that because our brains are evolved to be very picky about faces (a quality that helped our ancestors survive in tribes).

But the uncanny valley problem applies only to faces, not to bodies or how they move. There were no oddly-lurching people around 10,000 years ago for our ancestors to worry about, so our brains aren't sensitive to that. So why animate the bodies in a lurching way? They could move elegantly and fluidly, and also with more of a feeling of weight and force behind them (they often seem too weightless in fights - I'd like more of a sense of visceral force). Give them stylized clothing and it'll match the faces and the rest of the animation style.

 

[Gaith]

I disagree with exactly nothing of the above, except I do recoil at any suggestion that animation can evoke emotion "as well as any actor". It's true that animation can in some instances give a better performance than an actor can - I agree with Ebert that Yoda is the best-performed role in Empire, for instance - but there's a definite yet subtle distinction between noting that possibility and saying that animation, even at its finest, can equal the finest of human performances.

 

[Mach5]

I like animated Anakin much much MUCH better than live-action (maybe I should put that in quotes) Anakin.

Me too, but I'd like him to tone his voice performance down a bit. Sometimes he comes off as some kind of a jock or something, which indeed is much better than coming off as a whiny brat (like in PT), but I swear, I totally keep expecting him to call Obi-Wan "dude"

I got nothing against Quinlan Vos calling Obi-Wan "man" though. I lol'd hard at that one.

 

[AviTrek]

I disagree with exactly nothing of the above, except I do recoil at any suggestion that animation can evoke emotion "as well as any actor". It's true that animation can in some instances give a better performance than an actor can - I agree with Ebert that Yoda is the best-performed role in Empire, for instance - but there's a definite yet subtle distinction between noting that possibility and saying that animation, even at its finest, can equal the finest of human performances.

Except Yoda is a puppet in Empire and not animated. Yoda is only animated in the PT.

 

[Mach5]

Except Yoda is a puppet in Empire and not animated. Yoda is only animated in the PT.

Captain Obvious to the rescue!

The idea is that it is far harder to convey emotion with a puppet, than with a CG character, since CGI can mimic muscle movements almost without limitations (it's almost entirely up to artists), while a puppeteer can only do so much (and Frank Oz did wonders, IMO).

 

[davejames]

Since then, I've gone back and caught up on DVD, and my opinion has changed entirely. I still don't give a frak about clones, but there's a whole lot more going on. TCW is a well written series, with a nice way of adding character and story complexity incrementally over time, so that the action never (or rarely) slams to a dead halt, but it isn't all just a shallow kiddie show.

Yeah I've caught a few episodes here and there, and the writers are clearly doing some interesting things with the material... but as I have no emotional attachment whatsoever to the prequel universe or it's characters, it's just really hard for me to care.

It's a shame they couldn't apply that same storytelling skill to the OT universe. There's a ton of compelling characters and planets there which are just DYING to be explored in a greater way someday (and I wouldn't even mind seeing some prequel stuff worked in occassionally either).

Unfortunately, I get the impression Lucas just isn't interested in that universe anymore.

 

[Gaith]

I disagree with exactly nothing of the above, except I do recoil at any suggestion that animation can evoke emotion "as well as any actor". It's true that animation can in some instances give a better performance than an actor can - I agree with Ebert that Yoda is the best-performed role in Empire, for instance - but there's a definite yet subtle distinction between noting that possibility and saying that animation, even at its finest, can equal the finest of human performances.

Except Yoda is a puppet in Empire and not animated. Yoda is only animated in the PT.

Yeah, yeah, that's not the point. The point is that the argument applies to all nonhuman performances, whether physical puppets, CG-enhanced puppets, hand-drawn animation or CG animation.

 

[Mach5]

Yeah I've caught a few episodes here and there, and the writers are clearly doing some interesting things with the material... but as I have no emotional attachment whatsoever to the prequel universe or it's characters, it's just really hard for me to care.

It's a shame they couldn't apply that same storytelling skill to the OT universe. There's a ton of compelling characters and planets there which are just DYING to be explored in a greater way someday (and I wouldn't even mind seeing some prequel stuff worked in occassionally either).

Unfortunately, I get the impression Lucas just isn't interested in that universe anymore.

PT universe, OT universe... What are you talking about? There's only one Star Wars universe, like it or not (it's not like Trek where we have sh#tloads of quantum universes and whatnot). Had you seen more than just a few episodes, you'd notice that a lot of OT aesthetic has been gradually introduced into the show, like Republic cruisers' interiors which look almost exactly like Imperial star destroyers' from TESB and ROTJ. Hell, they even threw in some of Ralph McQuarrie's old unused OT concept art.

 

[Gaith]

PT universe, OT universe... What are you talking about? There's only one Star Wars universe, like it or not

And when Leia said she remembered her real mother, she was either
full of it, talking about another step-mother, or Force-remembering
thirty seconds of post-birth acquaintance!


​

And that, friends, is Geek Thought Police tactics in action.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Me too, but I'd like him to tone his voice performance down a bit. Sometimes he comes off as some kind of a jock or something, which indeed is much better than coming off as a whiny brat (like in PT), but I swear, I totally keep expecting him to call Obi-Wan "dude"

I agree about that. And that reminds me of a thought I've had for a while, that whoever plays Anakin should make more of an effort to re-create at least some version of the accent James Earl Jones created for Vader, for the sake of continuity and also making Anakin seem more special, exotic and like an outsider. He doesn't really come from any world in particular, not even Tatooine (where was his mom from, did we ever find out?) so it would be nice for him to speak in an accent that nobody else has.

 

[Capt_Pickirk]

PT universe, OT universe... What are you talking about? There's only one Star Wars universe, like it or not

And when Leia said she remembered her real mother, she was either
full of it, talking about another step-mother, or Force-remembering
thirty seconds of post-birth acquaintance!


​

And that, friends, is Geek Thought Police tactics in action.

Woman runs in representing Reboot of prequels, smashing screen with a sledgehammer





*sigh* If only

 

[Holdfast]

I've been wondering... Since live action SW TV series isn't going to happen any time soon...

The live action TV show is kind of on hold because we have scripts, but we don't know how to do 'em. Because, they literally are Star Wars, only we're going to have to try to do them ... a tenth the cost. And, it's a huge challenge ... lot bigger than what we thought it was gonna be.

How would you feel about the prospect of another animated, post ROTS TV show instead? A show similar to Clone Wars in style, but with hour-long episodes instead of 30 minutes, perhaps?

Would that be too expensive for TV as well?

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

I like the idea of a live-action Star Wars TV series. Whether the execution of it could ever live up to my expectations is another matter.

Would I try out another animated one? Probably. But a live-action one would feel like much more of "an event", which is how I tend to think of SW anyway: an event movie.

 

[Mach5]

And that, friends, is Geek Thought Police tactics in action.

And THAT, "friends" is how you pull other people's words out of context, by quoting only the least important part of the post.

Woman runs in representing Reboot of prequels, smashing screen with a sledgehammer

*sigh* If only

Here's a thought...

Clone Wars series finale is actually an improved remake of Revenge of the Sith!
This time with up to 100% less George Lucas' involvement!

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Clone Wars series finale is actually an improved remake of Revenge of the Sith!

And I don't even care if Lucas is involved and/or takes credit. Just do it right this time and all is forgiven!

I'd also like to see "flashback episodes" that rewrite AOTC and while we're being ambitious, why not TPM, although it's not strictly necessary...I could just forget that one altogether.

 

[Gaith]

And that, friends, is Geek Thought Police tactics in action.

And THAT, "friends" is how you pull other people's words out of context, by quoting only the least important part of the post.

Yeah, the "your way of thinking is totally wrong" part was much less important than the "but the new show incorporates many visual homages to the OT!" part - because nitpicking should always take precedence over philosophy.



Let me make this as clear as I can: I don't give a bantha f**** how many OT visual homages the PT/Clone Wars crams in. I don't care if it totally contradicts ROTS and goes on to show Leia knowing her real mother for a significant amount of time.

Remember what they taught us in preschool? To use our imaginations?

Isn't that why we fell in love with Star Wars in the first place, to use our imaginations in a new way?

Well, some of us are going to imagine an OT untainted by the PT and all its offshoots, and any Geek Big Brothers who try to tell us that "there's only one Star Wars universe" can go f*** right off, and french-kiss with Jar-Jar-Binks while they're at it. Everyone is free to tailor-make a perfect Star Wars universe in their own mind, and nobody should presume to enforce their views on anyone else.

Hugs,
Gaith


PS. The Vatican's been trying to enforce its single, unalterable interpretation of a fictional continuity for almost two thousand years. Try asking them how that's going.

 

[Mach5]

PS. The Vatican's been trying to enforce its single, unalterable interpretation of a fictional continuity for almost two thousand years. Try asking them how that's going.

Albert Einstein (you know, that Jewish guy, a smart dude) once said he accepted the historical Jesus unquestionably.

Is this the part when you take him on too in some canon jihad?

 

[Mr. Adventure]

PS. The Vatican's been trying to enforce its single, unalterable interpretation of a fictional continuity for almost two thousand years. Try asking them how that's going.

Albert Einstein (you know, that Jewish guy, a smart dude) once said he accepted the historical Jesus unquestionably.

Is this the part when you take him on too in some canon jihad?

I'd just be careful with that, a lot of quotes are erroneously attributed to Einstein.

 

[Mach5]

I'd just be careful with that, a lot of quotes are erroneously attributed to Einstein.

That particular quote was from a newspaper interview, I believe.

I think we should talk some Star Wars now, before the mods have our asses.

 

[Capt_Pickirk]

^ Good point.

Gaith, how does one become a member of the Star Wars Prequel Rejection Society???



It.......intrigues......me

 

[davejames]

PT universe, OT universe... What are you talking about? There's only one Star Wars universe, like it or not (it's not like Trek where we have sh#tloads of quantum universes and whatnot). Had you seen more than just a few episodes, you'd notice that a lot of OT aesthetic has been gradually introduced into the show, like Republic cruisers' interiors which look almost exactly like Imperial star destroyers' from TESB and ROTJ. Hell, they even threw in some of Ralph McQuarrie's old unused OT concept art.

Sorry, it doesn't really matter how many characters or worlds from the OT make their way into the show-- the main story still revolves around a war between a bunch of Jedis, Sith, Separatists, and Clones that I couldn't care less about.