Spoilers Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Grading & Discussion

[DigificWriter]

I think we're in for a time jump and E9 will open with the Resistance having recruited new fighters and replenished their resources and Rey having progressed on the path to building a new Jedi Order that isn't just built on the ashes of the old, but that has fundamentally moved beyond it to become something new that still bears the name "Jedi".

 

[Starship]

That's all speculation on your part. In fact, we know nothing about him other than he was strong with the Dark Side, turned Ben, and rules the First Order. That's it.

Not speculation. It is a known fact: https://www.inverse.com/article/38845-last-jedi-spoilers-rumor-snoke-sith-darkside-rey-star-wars

 

[WarpFactorZ]

I'm also now 150% convinced that the fandom backlash the film has received is being driven solely by pride. If parts of the fandom had not persistently ignored the numerous signs that were put out there....

I have a very strong suspicion that the blowback regarding Luke's death is being driven in large part by the pride-derived hypocrisy of fans turning on Rey as a character simply because she's not connected to any important bloodline and by the knowledge that Carrie Fisher's death now leaves us without any of the "OT 3".

The backlash being directed at TLJ has little to do with the actual quality of the film, being motivated by pride and an unwillingness to admit fault in building up unrealistic expectations by ignoring the filmmakers' efforts to curtail wild speculation and the buildup of said unrealistic expectations.

Jesus, buddy, how many times are you going to post the same thing? Perhaps your posts should be alerted for trolling.

Also, can people please stop with the condescending dismissal of The Last Jedi as "not Star Wars" for the sake of credibility?

Why don't you take your own advice and cut it with your own condescension. It's just a movie.

 

[Kirk the Jerk]

He didn't, and he didn't.

He didn't "hide" the map. It's apparent now that he either hid the location from Ben, or tried to destroy it so that nobody could follow him. And he didn't want people to find him. Poe, Finn and Rey reconstructed the map on their own, for their own purposes. As was made clear here in The Last Jedi, Luke never wanted to be found. The Force just had other ideas.

So who drew the map? It must’ve been Luke since he was the only person who knew where he was... he tried to destroy it by keeping it in R2?? How does that even make sense?

How would Ben know where he was? Ben already fled with the Knights of Ren after destroying the Temple, n it’s just Luke n R2 left

I think a lot of people are just blinded by the fact it’s Star Wars, they’ll accept whatever they’re given as long as it bears the name Star Wars.

 

[Romulan_spy]

I think we're in for a time jump and E9 will open with the Resistance having recruited new fighters and replenished their resources and Rey having progressed on the path to building a new Jedi Order that isn't just built on the ashes of the old, but that has fundamentally moved beyond it to become something new that still bears the name "Jedi".

I am not well versed enough in Star Wars lore so I apologize if the answer is obvious. But what are some ways that Rey would be a different Jedi or that her Jedi Order would be different from the old order?

 

[Romulan_spy]

I think a lot of people are just blinded by the fact it’s Star Wars, they’ll accept whatever they’re given as long as it bears the name Star Wars.

You mean like how some Trek fans just accept anything that bears the Trek name?

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Was I the only one that found the ending with the boy gazing at the stars as a symbol of hope, the same way innocent Luke did at the beginning of A New Hope remarkably beautiful? Even in the darkest hour, there is still hope.

Yup, I loved that, too.

Not speculation. It is a known fact: https://www.inverse.com/article/38845-last-jedi-spoilers-rumor-snoke-sith-darkside-rey-star-wars

If it doesn't happen on screen, it's not a "known fact."

Besides, I'm not just talking about him not being a Sith Lord (which, fine, whatever). I mean your whole post about him being "an Old being," with a deformed body as a result of many battles and "won many of them."

 

[Kor]

The movie could have been better, for sure.

Apart of what I already wrote in this thread about what I consider problems in this movie, let´s talk about Snoke... Not a Sith Lord, but still powerfull in the dark side. An Old being, with a deformed body, but still powerfull, what means that he passed throught many battles and won many of them (and yet, he was never mentioned before).
Therefore... He came from nowhere, and is back to that place again (after a stupid death...). If he was Darth Plagueis, it would at least have been comprehensible and would make more sense in the Star Wars Universe, but it wasn´t Disney´s choice. Now, we "know" you don´t need to be a Jedi nor a Sith to use the Force...

In the next movie, Rey will be a Jedi Master? Luke is dead, and Leia can´t do this. Who will teach the new generation of Jedis (a predictable thing "announced" by the little boy near the end of the movie)?
So, the words of Kylo Ren comes to my mind: "Forget the Sith, the Jedi and all that happened before..."

Let´s hope for a better movie closing this trilogy. But I wouldn´t put my money in risk waiting for this.

The Force is a natural part of the universe in SW. The Jedi and Sith do not have a monopoly on The Force, even though they have dogmatically tried to monopolize it. This was illustrated wonderfully in several episodes of the Clone Wars series.

Kor

 

[USS Firefly]

I am not well versed enough in Star Wars lore so I apologize if the answer is obvious. But what are some ways that Rey would be a different Jedi or that her Jedi Order would be different from the old order?

Indeed, The Jedi scripts she takes with her where from a time before the Order's fall.
And she doesn't know the ways of the old Jedi Order so she can make the same mistakes the old Jedi Order did under Yoda's leading.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Great film - best of the "new trilogy" and perhaps one of the top three SW films of all time.
Characters - spot on
Story - interesting and suprising
Wow moments - far more than The Force Awakens
Potential for more - very, very high

Mark Hamill - by the way, gave the performance of his career. Absolutely perfect.

Blue milk> Green milk.

 

[Captain of the USS Averof]

Was I the only one that found the ending with the boy gazing at the stars as a symbol of hope, the same way innocent Luke did at the beginning of A New Hope remarkably beautiful? Even in the darkest hour, there is still hope.

The cynical in me thought that it was meant to show that Disney will be making Star Wars movies for decades and decades and decades... to come.

 

[Ithekro]

The impression I have of the map now is that the map was made for Luke by the guy who gave Poe the piece of it he had, using the data R2 stole from the Death Star decades ago. The guy kept it. Luke may or may not have known he had it, or told him to destroy it, but an old Church of the Force guy is going to hold on to such a thing, just in case. R2 just had the rest of the map because that's were it came from in the first place. So it is more a case of others conspiring to keep map to Luke existing , rather than Luke setting himself up as a "if you need me, I'll be here" moment.

 

[Jedi_Master]

The cynical in me thought that it was meant to show that Disney will be making Star Wars movies for decades and decades and decades... to come.

Why is that a bad thing? I like Star Wars.

 

[crookeddy]

Why is that a bad thing? I like Star Wars.

I'll take all the Star Wars they give me, but narratively it's a problem. It means things will never turn out well for the resistance - they will need an empire to fight forever and ever and ever.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I'll take all the Star Wars they give me, but narratively it's a problem. It means things will never turn out well for the resistance - they will need an empire to fight forever and ever and ever.

There's more to Star Wars than fighting evil empires. And I say that as someone who hasn't read any of the books or comics, or watched any of the shows.

 

[crookeddy]

There's more to Star Wars than fighting evil empires. And I say that as someone who hasn't read any of the books or comics, or watched any of the shows.

I guess nobody told JJ Abrams and Kennedy...

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

Saw it last night! I've only been able to get through about 15 pages of this thread so far this morning, but I wanted to post my thoughts. I am in the "I FREAKING LOVED IT" crowd. Surprised to see that the internet isn't unanimously fawning over it the way I am, but I guess that should be expected! Every Star Wars movie is polarizing, but its always a bit of a shock to see ppl completely hate elements of a movie that I thought were fantastic!

Spoiler

Loved (In No Particular Order):
- Mark Hamill gave the performance of a lifetime in this movie. So much range of emotion and personal torment. I was surprised with how they handled his story and saddened by how much his life didn't turn out the way I thought it would post ROTJ, but you know, "This is not going to go the way you think," perfectly sums up that sometimes your life takes surprising turns. Fully on board with his lifetime arc, and was happy that he went out like a full blown badass at peace.
- Leia blown out into space early on in the movie stopped my heart for a good minute. It kept racing through my mind, 'This is where it happens. This is it. This is how they end her story.' Followed by...'Wait, what the hell is going on?'
- Rey officially becoming a random in the SW universe. I mean, it's arguable that they could still do something dramatic with her parentage, but I love the idea that anyone can be a hero. I'm totally down with removing inheritance as a necessity to being important.
- Rose was absolutely delightful. Her and Finn make a great team and her saving him and the end really nailed the overall new theme of Star Wars that ANYONE can be a hero.
- THE COMEDY! I see a lot of people weren't fans of it, but I absolutely was. Someone upthread mentioned the film not taking itself too seriously, and I have to agree. Letting itself have fun while the overall story was about failure and mistakes was great, and I felt that it would have been too dour without it. Favorite joke has to be Luke hitting Rey with the long blade of grass, "Can you feel it? Really? WOW you must be really strong with the force!"
- Snoke going down like a punk.
- Phasma going down like a punk.
- Hux as the First Order's official punching bag. Makes all his Hitler inspired delivery even more fun.
- The 'Putting Poe in His Place' story arc. I'm all about hot-heads learning their lessons and that hot-headedness has a time and place. Framing it with Leia and the Super Awesome Admiral Holdo was great, and Star Wars was given another new strong female character.
- Having seen so much younger Yoda in the prequels and Clone Wars series, I forgot just how much more fun and AMAZING puppet Yoda was. Oh how I missed that laugh of his.
- The scene where Holdo takes out the entire First Order fleet with the cruiser. It was absolutely gorgeous. It might have been the most beautifully crafted 'moment' scene in the entire franchise for me.
- But really, this is just a gorgeously shot movie. Every set piece and every design; each shot was like looking at a painting.

Loved-Not-As-Much:
- The casino side mission, while entertaining and fun, felt largely added because they needed to give something for Finn and Rose to do while other stuff was happening. I am forgiving with this because Finn and Rose were just fun to watch overall. Those racing animals were an interesting take on the special effects chase scene required for each SW movie.
- The First Order slowly pursuing the resistance fleet seemed like an odd choice. I may have missed the dialogue but why was it that the TIE fighters just didn't like, finish the attack? I was overall surprised that the entire movie was literally a drawn out straight line chase scene. Also forgiven because it gave a chance for everything else to happen.
- It seemed strange that Holdo wouldn't just tell Poe about the mission instead of doing the whole Police Cheif vs. Hot Head Detective trope, but this is forgiven because when she actually does tell him he ends up ruining the plan by telling Finn and Rose anyway. I like the overall purpose of her doing so but it just took me out of it with her for a moment.
- Rey crying so much without being balanced by a tear or two from Kylo. I am not one to hate a girl crying on screen as a sign of weakness (because I probably would have cried 1000x more than her in every scene) but it would have been nice to see at least a tear from Kylo in those scenes.
- Not even the slightest hint or mention of where Snoke came from or rose to power (but then again, we got none of that with Palpatine in the original trilogy either)
- The new gorilla walkers are kinda silly looking.

I'll probably be seeing this movie again on Christmas day with family, but I'm totally down to see it a third time with friends.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

There's more to Star Wars than fighting evil empires. And I say that as someone who hasn't read any of the books or comics, or watched any of the shows.

Really? Let's see, not including the books:

Ep I: fighting evil Trade Federation and Sith Lord (not an empire, but...)
Ep II: fighting civil war against faction lead by Sith Lord
Ep III: Evil empire (w/ Sith Lord) vanquishes good republic
Rogue One: Rebels steal secret plans from evil empire; heroes all killed at end.
Ep IV: Rebels fight evil empire
Ep V: Rebels still fighting evil empire
Ep VI: Rebels finally defeat evil empire
Ep VII: New evil empire suddenly appears; fighting resumes. Rebels replaced by Resistance.
Ep VIII: Evil empire continues to decimate Resistance.

I don't watch the cartoons, but their titles are "Star Wars: The Clone Wars" and "Star Wars: Rebels", both of which involve fighting an evil empire. And let's not forget the Star Wars Holiday Special, which chronicled Chewie trying to get home while escaping the pursuing evil empire.

Where is the part about something other than fighting evil empires?

PS: The franchise is called "Star WARS" (the last word means fighting).

 

[F. King Daniel]

The split fan reaction to this movie and anger is really bringing back memories of 2013's Star Trek Into Darkness.

 

[Jedi_Master]

The split fan reaction to this movie and anger is really bringing back memories of 2013's Star Trek Into Darkness.

Please. Anything but that.

On a more positive note: I am going to figure out a version of the "I'm holding for General Hux" scene for my personal voicemail.