Star Wars: The Force Awakens Discussion (HERE THERE BE SPOILERS)
- Thread starter sttngfan1701d
- Start date
I saw it last night and thoroughly loved it. It has some flaws but overall it was fun and exciting and funny and filled with real characters with real lives.
The journeys that Rey and Finn go through during the course of the film are worth the admission alone and then you add all of the incredible action sequences, gorgeous worlds, plethora of alien species (both practical and special effects!)...and of course, Han Solo, Chewbacca, Leia, C-3PO and R2-D2 (and just smidgen of Luke).
My biggest complaint about the film, and this might be a result of false expectations, but Poe Dameron was largely a one-dimensional character whose main purpose appeared to create the opportunity for Rey and Finn to meet. And also to cheer enthusiastically a lot. Coming in the film, I had gotten the impression that Rey, Finn and Poe were the new Big Three, but on a level of characterization, he ranked well below the other two. I'm sure now the new universe has been established, his character will be fleshed out better in the next film, but here he felt like only slightly more in significance than Wedge while played by a rising star. I was also a bit annoyed by his supposed death which was just quickly hand-waved later on, while I knew he couldn't have died because what I saw in the trailers.
Unfortunately, I had been keeping up with the rumors so I knew of the possibility of Kylo Ren being Han and Leia's son, so that wasn't remotely shocking to me, even with the hints leading up to it. Likewise, I knew of the possibility of Han's death, and it was while emotional and well-executed, it felt (from my perspective) that it was in fact largely telegraphed from the moment Leia requested Han to bring home their son. That and for those who had been paying attention to the trailers, knew Kylo wouldn't turn to the Light.
The journeys that Rey and Finn go through during the course of the film are worth the admission alone and then you add all of the incredible action sequences, gorgeous worlds, plethora of alien species (both practical and special effects!)...and of course, Han Solo, Chewbacca, Leia, C-3PO and R2-D2 (and just smidgen of Luke).
My biggest complaint about the film, and this might be a result of false expectations, but Poe Dameron was largely a one-dimensional character whose main purpose appeared to create the opportunity for Rey and Finn to meet. And also to cheer enthusiastically a lot. Coming in the film, I had gotten the impression that Rey, Finn and Poe were the new Big Three, but on a level of characterization, he ranked well below the other two. I'm sure now the new universe has been established, his character will be fleshed out better in the next film, but here he felt like only slightly more in significance than Wedge while played by a rising star. I was also a bit annoyed by his supposed death which was just quickly hand-waved later on, while I knew he couldn't have died because what I saw in the trailers.
Unfortunately, I had been keeping up with the rumors so I knew of the possibility of Kylo Ren being Han and Leia's son, so that wasn't remotely shocking to me, even with the hints leading up to it. Likewise, I knew of the possibility of Han's death, and it was while emotional and well-executed, it felt (from my perspective) that it was in fact largely telegraphed from the moment Leia requested Han to bring home their son. That and for those who had been paying attention to the trailers, knew Kylo wouldn't turn to the Light.
Yeah, I also hoped we would get to see Gwendoline Christie's face, but alas. At least it's good to know that she will be returning. At least she isn't wasted here as she was in the final Hunger Games movie
Yeah, during the third act, there was definitely a female Stormtrooper.
Yea, a solid B+ movie and I'd give it a 7/10.
Liked most if it, but the main problem for me was it was quite blatantly a remake of the first to the point where I was comfortably predicting the beats. I hope Luke isn't going to be the Yoda character and they rehash A New Hope.
Personally, thought the Han Solo death was lame and wasn't really a surprise.
Liked most if it, but the main problem for me was it was quite blatantly a remake of the first to the point where I was comfortably predicting the beats. I hope Luke isn't going to be the Yoda character and they rehash A New Hope.
Personally, thought the Han Solo death was lame and wasn't really a surprise.
OK, have seen the movie now, and here is a plot question that had me utterly perplexed: Can someone explain the political relationship between the First Order, the Republic, and the Rebels? Is the Republic supposed to be the galactic government? And if so, then what is the Rebellion rebelling against, as the Rebellion seems to be OK with the Republic, just against the First Order?
And here's a bonus question: Am I imagining things, or was there some kind of line at one point about the origin of Snoke, about him arising out of the Dark Side or something? It went by so fast, that I missed what was said. Or maybe I was just hallucinating.
And here's a bonus question: Am I imagining things, or was there some kind of line at one point about the origin of Snoke, about him arising out of the Dark Side or something? It went by so fast, that I missed what was said. Or maybe I was just hallucinating.
none of that needs explaining anymore than it did in the originals. delving into boring political shit was one of many things that ruined the prequels. if i was gonna guess, i'd say the rebel alliance defeated the empire, formed the new republic and the empire remnants became the first order. the republic don't bother with them and keep them contained in a small part of the galaxy, but the people living there still form a resistance which is backed from the republic.
i don't know, the snoke character was pretty crap and felt like something from the prequels.
Do I remember it correctly or did someone suggest that Snoke sends in the clones when Finn defected? Did Kylo suggest it to Hux? Is there a separate recruited/abducted brainwashed Stromtrooper army and then a separate Clone army inside the First order?
As I understand is that there are basically two superpowers around the Galaxy. The Republic and the New Order. The Resistance, not rebels, is resisting against the New Order in the fringes of the Republic and on the First Order controlled planets. And Resistance has, or atleast had, access to the Republic's resources.
Any idea who controls the Coruscant?
---
And regarding Snoke, wouldnt it be funny if he was actually about the size of Yoda?
As I understand is that there are basically two superpowers around the Galaxy. The Republic and the New Order. The Resistance, not rebels, is resisting against the New Order in the fringes of the Republic and on the First Order controlled planets. And Resistance has, or atleast had, access to the Republic's resources.
Any idea who controls the Coruscant?
---
And regarding Snoke, wouldnt it be funny if he was actually about the size of Yoda?
Saw it earlier. Liked it a lot. Gonna see it again most likely sometime this weekend, in 2D, as it was the first movie I have seen in over a year in 3D.
Okay - here's an article written by one of my best friends.
It contains NO spoilers but, I'd classify it as REQUIRED reading before seeing TFA. It basically distills all of the lead in books and media that spans the time between ROTJ and TFA.
It's a bit long but it SHOULD answer all of your questions.
Or to put it succinctly - It's all Mon Mothma's fault!
http://screenrant.com/star-wars-journey-force-awakens-guide/
Ok, here goes (Full Spoilers)
For me it was a C, not Prequel Level bad but nowhere near the epic brilliance we all wanted (the movie could never stand up to the hype but even on its own it wasn't that great).
First let me talk about the good things:
I really liked the visual style of it all, especially Jakku that exuded Star Wars out of every pore. The team behind JJ went to great lengths to make this movie look believable, a world that looks like it's being lived in and not from some glossy fashion magazine, the sets are amazing.
Most of the newcomers, i.e. Rey, Finn and Poe are awesome. From the very first scene in the movie that features Poe on a secret mission to find clues to Luke's whereabouts he rocks this movie.
He's a badass pilot and you instantly get the feeling that this is a guy you want besides you when it gets tough.
Finn/Boyega owns his role and defines it.. i am so looking forward to his story throughout the movies because he never disappoints throughout the movie. He's unintentionally funny from the time one when he leaves First Order business and is in way over his head and tries to bluff his way through to his culmination as a true hero when he volunteers for a critical strike mission and faces off against Adam Driver's Kylo Ren.
Rey/Riddley is the breakout star of the movie for me.. it's hard to imagine this is her very first acting job and she scores a leading role in a monster movie franchise and utterly deserves this. This is a character that will become a role model for girls and i am sure to see a shit ton of Rey's in the coming Comic Cons as her popularity explodes. On Jakku she's perfect as a loner, stranded on a backwater world living off scraps and a huge desire to leave and a giant chip on her shoulder for being apparently abandoned by her parents there.
Circumstances give her the chance to leave Jakku and start her own story and she has to overcome some tough obstacles before she finally accepts her destiny to become a Jedi.
That is a character story i thoroughly enjoyed.
Han and Chewie.. damn! They're back and i just couldn't stop smiling seeing the banter between him and Chewie, Han still trying scoundreling his way out of tight spots and playing the bad guys against each other and still being a hero to the very last end (and it was a sad end but inevitable as i believe it was Ford's decision to play him one last time but only if he died).
That's the really good stuff, now unfortunately off the bad (or rather very mediocre) stuff.
My two biggest disappointments were Adam Driver as Kylo Ren and the overall story.
Kylo Ren starts off as a real badass when he sets out after the plans to Luke's hideout and assaults a small village on Jakku where he captures Poe. Him stopping that laser blast mid air and calmly proceeding to do other stuff while it hangs there is amazing.
The character breaks apart as soon (too soon) as we learn he's Han's and Leia's son and he removes his mask to reveal an emo, whiny bitch who has emotional control issues.
If this is supposed to be Vader 2.0 and the main villain they failed. Driver is just not able to deliver this character when he is unmasked but that may also be due to the script that just doesn't work in presenting him as a conflicted character who doesn't know where to turn (it was especially laughable when Snoke mentioned Ren as in danger of turning to the light side.. that rather came off ridiculous from his mouth).
He kills Han while trying to look conflicted and it just comes off as an emo bitch wasting that monumental moment (which everybody saw coming as soon as Han goes after him).
Then he gets to be awful when he battles Finn and Rey. Finn , with absolutely no traing and only a second time with a lightsabre in his hand, manages to hold him off for a good while.
Now remember that back at Maz Kanata's place he fights a Stormtrooper who has a sort of shock stick and gets his ass kicked - by a lowly Stormtrooper! And here we have a potential Sith Lord with Force Powers who was trained by Luke Skywalker (maybe not to the end but still) who should by all means walk over him like a tank and he only manages to win this fight by using the crossguard of his lightsabre to wound Finn in the shoulder.
Enter Rey who has just started to discover and use her Force abilities. She is capable in a fight as we see on Jakku but fighting a lightsabre wielding Force User is something else than kicking the ass of some paid grunts. She not only holds her own but manages to out-Jedi him by snatching away the Lightsabre with the Force but then proceeds to lay the smackdown on Ren expertly blocking his strikes and striking on her own (she even manages to wound him in the face) before the crumbling planet separates them or she might have killed him. That just finally ruined the character of Kylo Ren for me.
The second thing i disliked is how basic and uninspired the whole story of the movie is. I get that it's a start of the trilogy, we need to introduce the new characters and so on but another Superweapon? Really?
The whole plot concerning this seems to be lifted from A New Hope and this is the main problem.. JJ has failed to emancipate himself from the original source and this is also my main critique about his Star Trek movies.
I know that fans love the original movies to death and that JJ wants to throw them a bone but he damn near throws the entire cow.
It's like he had a checklist of his favorite things about A New Hope and went through it bit by bit.
Tatooine? Well.. would be too obvious so let's call it Jakku (but still a huge honking desert planet)
Mos Eisley Cantina? Check (even with a band playing in the background and all sorts of weird aliens)
Yoda? Check but not a Jedi Grand Master, instead a similar small and weird creature who almost quotes Yoda word for word when he explains what the Force is
Imperial Superweapon? Double Check but this time it's no moon but a friggin' planet because bigger is always better and more dangerous
Trench Run? Check.
JJ just fails to make his own movie that pays hommage to the source but makes its own way. The thing that worries me most is the absolute failure that is Kylo Ren/Adam Driver because if the trilogy is about his redemption and return to the light side we might be in deep trouble down the line.
Other than that there is just the right amount of questions that still need to be answered as in what happened at Luke's Jedi Academy and Ben Solo, what's the deal with Snoke and who is he, why is there actually a Republic (insinuating that after Return of the Jedi the Empire was defeated and replaced by the Republic) and a separate Resistance against the First Order?
Who was Max von Sydows character (he apparently know all the background)?
Oh, and please do a flashback of the Battle of Jakku.. that looks downright amazing and kinda scary o imagine the firepower at work that has Super Star Destroyers and normal Star Destroyers crash land on the planet (and there was apparently also a land battle due to the destroyed AT At).
So.. while i knew it could never live up to the hype i was still disappointed to only get a mediocre movie but i hope that years down the line when we have all three movies it might elevate itself in the grand scheme of things.
For me it was a C, not Prequel Level bad but nowhere near the epic brilliance we all wanted (the movie could never stand up to the hype but even on its own it wasn't that great).
First let me talk about the good things:
I really liked the visual style of it all, especially Jakku that exuded Star Wars out of every pore. The team behind JJ went to great lengths to make this movie look believable, a world that looks like it's being lived in and not from some glossy fashion magazine, the sets are amazing.
Most of the newcomers, i.e. Rey, Finn and Poe are awesome. From the very first scene in the movie that features Poe on a secret mission to find clues to Luke's whereabouts he rocks this movie.
He's a badass pilot and you instantly get the feeling that this is a guy you want besides you when it gets tough.
Finn/Boyega owns his role and defines it.. i am so looking forward to his story throughout the movies because he never disappoints throughout the movie. He's unintentionally funny from the time one when he leaves First Order business and is in way over his head and tries to bluff his way through to his culmination as a true hero when he volunteers for a critical strike mission and faces off against Adam Driver's Kylo Ren.
Rey/Riddley is the breakout star of the movie for me.. it's hard to imagine this is her very first acting job and she scores a leading role in a monster movie franchise and utterly deserves this. This is a character that will become a role model for girls and i am sure to see a shit ton of Rey's in the coming Comic Cons as her popularity explodes. On Jakku she's perfect as a loner, stranded on a backwater world living off scraps and a huge desire to leave and a giant chip on her shoulder for being apparently abandoned by her parents there.
Circumstances give her the chance to leave Jakku and start her own story and she has to overcome some tough obstacles before she finally accepts her destiny to become a Jedi.
That is a character story i thoroughly enjoyed.
Han and Chewie.. damn! They're back and i just couldn't stop smiling seeing the banter between him and Chewie, Han still trying scoundreling his way out of tight spots and playing the bad guys against each other and still being a hero to the very last end (and it was a sad end but inevitable as i believe it was Ford's decision to play him one last time but only if he died).
That's the really good stuff, now unfortunately off the bad (or rather very mediocre) stuff.
My two biggest disappointments were Adam Driver as Kylo Ren and the overall story.
Kylo Ren starts off as a real badass when he sets out after the plans to Luke's hideout and assaults a small village on Jakku where he captures Poe. Him stopping that laser blast mid air and calmly proceeding to do other stuff while it hangs there is amazing.
The character breaks apart as soon (too soon) as we learn he's Han's and Leia's son and he removes his mask to reveal an emo, whiny bitch who has emotional control issues.
If this is supposed to be Vader 2.0 and the main villain they failed. Driver is just not able to deliver this character when he is unmasked but that may also be due to the script that just doesn't work in presenting him as a conflicted character who doesn't know where to turn (it was especially laughable when Snoke mentioned Ren as in danger of turning to the light side.. that rather came off ridiculous from his mouth).
He kills Han while trying to look conflicted and it just comes off as an emo bitch wasting that monumental moment (which everybody saw coming as soon as Han goes after him).
Then he gets to be awful when he battles Finn and Rey. Finn , with absolutely no traing and only a second time with a lightsabre in his hand, manages to hold him off for a good while.
Now remember that back at Maz Kanata's place he fights a Stormtrooper who has a sort of shock stick and gets his ass kicked - by a lowly Stormtrooper! And here we have a potential Sith Lord with Force Powers who was trained by Luke Skywalker (maybe not to the end but still) who should by all means walk over him like a tank and he only manages to win this fight by using the crossguard of his lightsabre to wound Finn in the shoulder.
Enter Rey who has just started to discover and use her Force abilities. She is capable in a fight as we see on Jakku but fighting a lightsabre wielding Force User is something else than kicking the ass of some paid grunts. She not only holds her own but manages to out-Jedi him by snatching away the Lightsabre with the Force but then proceeds to lay the smackdown on Ren expertly blocking his strikes and striking on her own (she even manages to wound him in the face) before the crumbling planet separates them or she might have killed him. That just finally ruined the character of Kylo Ren for me.
The second thing i disliked is how basic and uninspired the whole story of the movie is. I get that it's a start of the trilogy, we need to introduce the new characters and so on but another Superweapon? Really?
The whole plot concerning this seems to be lifted from A New Hope and this is the main problem.. JJ has failed to emancipate himself from the original source and this is also my main critique about his Star Trek movies.
I know that fans love the original movies to death and that JJ wants to throw them a bone but he damn near throws the entire cow.
It's like he had a checklist of his favorite things about A New Hope and went through it bit by bit.
Tatooine? Well.. would be too obvious so let's call it Jakku (but still a huge honking desert planet)
Mos Eisley Cantina? Check (even with a band playing in the background and all sorts of weird aliens)
Yoda? Check but not a Jedi Grand Master, instead a similar small and weird creature who almost quotes Yoda word for word when he explains what the Force is
Imperial Superweapon? Double Check but this time it's no moon but a friggin' planet because bigger is always better and more dangerous
Trench Run? Check.
JJ just fails to make his own movie that pays hommage to the source but makes its own way. The thing that worries me most is the absolute failure that is Kylo Ren/Adam Driver because if the trilogy is about his redemption and return to the light side we might be in deep trouble down the line.
Other than that there is just the right amount of questions that still need to be answered as in what happened at Luke's Jedi Academy and Ben Solo, what's the deal with Snoke and who is he, why is there actually a Republic (insinuating that after Return of the Jedi the Empire was defeated and replaced by the Republic) and a separate Resistance against the First Order?
Who was Max von Sydows character (he apparently know all the background)?
Oh, and please do a flashback of the Battle of Jakku.. that looks downright amazing and kinda scary o imagine the firepower at work that has Super Star Destroyers and normal Star Destroyers crash land on the planet (and there was apparently also a land battle due to the destroyed AT At).
So.. while i knew it could never live up to the hype i was still disappointed to only get a mediocre movie but i hope that years down the line when we have all three movies it might elevate itself in the grand scheme of things.
SPOILERS.
I had the same thought. This is my quickly jotted down "review" which can be read as The Force Awakens or A New Hope...
A young person living on a desert planet is caught up in adventure when they cross paths with a droid carrying vital plans for the rebellion.
During the adventure, they find out that they are Force-sensitive.
After a stop at a colourful watering hole, they head out, travelling with Han Solo and Chewbacca.
The female lead is captured and tortured for information. She then escapes with the help of Han Solo, Chewbacca, and the male lead.
A red-bladed bad guy kills a father figure in full-view of the male and female leads.
The rebels stage a daring attack on a gigantic planet-killing weapon.
After spending years hidden, Anakin’s lightsaber is returned to its rightful owner, Luke Skywalker.
I'm sure there's more, that's just off the top of my head. But I loved the film though, just for the record.
I had the same thought. This is my quickly jotted down "review" which can be read as The Force Awakens or A New Hope...
A young person living on a desert planet is caught up in adventure when they cross paths with a droid carrying vital plans for the rebellion.
During the adventure, they find out that they are Force-sensitive.
After a stop at a colourful watering hole, they head out, travelling with Han Solo and Chewbacca.
The female lead is captured and tortured for information. She then escapes with the help of Han Solo, Chewbacca, and the male lead.
A red-bladed bad guy kills a father figure in full-view of the male and female leads.
The rebels stage a daring attack on a gigantic planet-killing weapon.
After spending years hidden, Anakin’s lightsaber is returned to its rightful owner, Luke Skywalker.
I'm sure there's more, that's just off the top of my head. But I loved the film though, just for the record.
Last edited:
Some people obviously expected Kylo Ren to be same or even better than Vader was, choking people with the Force and destroying everyone with his lightsabre. And they were disappointed.
I didnt really have any preconceptions about what he was going to be.
I noticed from the first time he took out his sabre and completely trashed the console early on the movie that he was pretty much an unbalanced person. I wouldnt even be surprised if there was a twist coming up and Kylo will return to being Ben even as early as the next movie and Snoke will be the main big bad after that.
I didnt really have any preconceptions about what he was going to be.
I noticed from the first time he took out his sabre and completely trashed the console early on the movie that he was pretty much an unbalanced person. I wouldnt even be surprised if there was a twist coming up and Kylo will return to being Ben even as early as the next movie and Snoke will be the main big bad after that.
Thank you! That was useful. OK, I thought about this some more, and I think I understand why I wasn't quite as engaged with the story in this movie as I thought I'd be. I do think there were too many mysteries left as teasers to be addressed in the sequel. Someone on the IMDb board said that they shouldn't carry mysteries over from one movie to the next. The only question at the end should be "What happens next?"
I don't quite agree with that. I think it's OK to tease mysteries for the next movie. However, it seems like in this movie there were too many questions left unanswered for the audience that the main characters themselves know the answer to. And that's what I have a problem with.
I already mentioned the question about how does the First Order relate to the Republic, and how does that relate to the "Resistance". I don't need a 5 minute political seminar on that question, but it would have been nice for either Han or Leia to give us a few sentences catching us up on what's happened these past few decades wrt the fight against the Empire. Without that, it didn't feel like the conflict had much context.
Another example is Rey's past. OK, when she was a kid she was left by her parents on Jakku. I guess her parentage is supposed to be a mystery for the next movie, but it would have been nice if she'd had a conversation with Finn about her own story as she saw it. Doesn't have to be a lengthy scene, but just recounting her abandonment from her perspective or something, to better understand what she's all about. Was that in the movie? I don't recall. We got like a two second flashback or something, but I would have liked a bit more context.
Kylo Ren was the standout character for me. Absolutely note perfect, with or without the mask. I love the idea that he has ideas above his station and as a Force wielder is actually pretty crap but has been bluffing his way through due to encountering no real challenge until he meets Rey and gets his ass kicked. Yeah, I did think the Finn fight went on longer than it should have but he was injured and did dispatch of him pretty easily in the end.
For me, the new film really succeeded in the character department. Poe, Finn, Rey, Kylo, BB-8... all memorable, something the prequels sorely lacked.
For me, the new film really succeeded in the character department. Poe, Finn, Rey, Kylo, BB-8... all memorable, something the prequels sorely lacked.
Whatchu talkin bout Willis? It's been 16 years and people still won't shut-up about Jar Jar. This despite the character only featuring heavily in one movie.
