Spoilers Star Wars: Solo - Grading and Discussion Thread

[Trekker4747]

This dislike towards any kind of feminism or female-centric story telling these days is kind of angering.

So many have so much hate towards anything focusing on a woman.

 

[Professor Zoom]

I watched a fan edit of Solo re-titled The Coaxium Heist a few days ago, my first viewing of the movie since the theater, and rather enjoyed it. The Maul cameo is removed, L3's antics are toned down, Han isn't named "Solo" by some random imperial, there's a classic-style opening crawl, and the whole movie is given a color adjustment that makes it brighter and easier on the eyes:

Solo

The Coaxium Heist

Solo

The Coaxium Heist

Solo

The Coaxium Heist

I don't agree with every change made, such as cutting the squid parts on the cockpit gag, but overall, ditching Maul and the brightened colors made the experience a definite improvement over the official version. I think it goes to show that had Lucasfilm made this a Disney+ miniseries, giving us Han's famous attributes (the gun, meeting Chewie, shooting first, meeting Lando, winning the Falcon, the Kessel Run, etc.) in a series of unrelated and gradual adventures, rather than over the course of One cRaZy Weekend!, fans might have been much more receptive to both the project overall and Ehrenreich in particular, who I thought was good in my first viewing, but really good here. Ah well, at least we've got this fan edit, and that's not half bad.

Meh to the edits, but, I like the changing of the coloring.
But, I'm not gonna watch it again. Twice was more than enough.

 

[fireproof78]

This dislike towards any kind of feminism or female-centric story telling these days is kind of angering.

So many have so much hate towards anything focusing on a woman.

It's ridiculous.

 

[Crewman6]

This dislike towards any kind of feminism or female-centric story telling these days is kind of angering.

So many have so much hate towards anything focusing on a woman.

It's horrifying. And it's a symptom of a very, very large problem. Unfortunately the internet allows people of bad faith to cultivate in like-minded groups and get even worse.

Youtube's algorithm radicalizes people by directing them to more and more extreme content.

I watched ONE Joe Rogan video because he was interviewing Leah Remini about Scientology and my feed was flooded with fringe lunatics the next day.

 

[Reverend]

This dislike towards any kind of feminism or female-centric story telling these days is kind of angering.

So many have so much hate towards anything focusing on a woman.

It's something that I think has been bubbling under the surface (albeit not very far) for a while now. I think the first time I personally noticed this kind of mentality become more than just the odd random nutter was in the PC game modding scene about 10-15 years back. Specifically an seemingly inexplicably popular mod for 'Half-Life 2' to "fix" Alyx*.
Said fixes entailed about what you'd expect: lighter skin, more revealing outfit, way too much makeup (especially given the setting), and a ridiculously impractical looking hairdo. I think it removed some of her dialogue too, but I'm not 100% on that.

* For those that don't know, Alyx Vance is an NPC that is 1) female, 2) an POC of mixed Asian/African American heritage 3) not actually in the main game all that much (her role was expanded in the "episode" expansions) , functioning mostly as an exposition delivery system and to give some sense of emotional engagement in a game featuring a mute protagonist in a bleak distopian setting.​

 

[JD]

I watched a fan edit of Solo re-titled The Coaxium Heist a few days ago, my first viewing of the movie since the theater, and rather enjoyed it. The Maul cameo is removed, L3's antics are toned down, Han isn't named "Solo" by some random imperial, there's a classic-style opening crawl, and the whole movie is given a color adjustment that makes it brighter and easier on the eyes:

Solo

The Coaxium Heist

Solo

The Coaxium Heist

Solo

The Coaxium Heist

I don't agree with every change made, such as cutting the squid parts on the cockpit gag, but overall, ditching Maul and the brightened colors made the experience a definite improvement over the official version. I think it goes to show that had Lucasfilm made this a Disney+ miniseries, giving us Han's famous attributes (the gun, meeting Chewie, shooting first, meeting Lando, winning the Falcon, the Kessel Run, etc.) in a series of unrelated and gradual adventures, rather than over the course of One cRaZy Weekend!, fans might have been much more receptive to both the project overall and Ehrenreich in particular, who I thought was good in my first viewing, but really good here. Ah well, at least we've got this fan edit, and that's not half bad.

I loved L-3 and Mauls appearance, so this would pretty much ruin the movie.
I've always been a little bothered by the treatment of the droids in Star Wars, so I liked that we got a droid character who was unhappy about it.

 

[Gaith]

Anyone else get the sense that the thing certain people find "creepy" about L3 has less to do with "sexualizing a robot" (whatever the fuck that means)

It means L3 heavily implied, if not outright stated, that she and Lando had a sexual relationship. Not sure what's unclear about that...

 

[Campe]

It’s also implied that Lando had sex anything that would let him. When Donald Glover suggested as much, the insecure fanboys got pissed off at that too.

 

[Reverend]

It means L3 heavily implied, if not outright stated, that she and Lando had a sexual relationship. Not sure what's unclear about that...

I got more of an Odd Couple vibe, personally. The romance bit was just played for a gag. Indeed, said gag was based on the premise that they *weren't* currently intimate.

But let's just say for the sake or argument they were bumping uglies to data ports. So what? It has zero impact on the plot, story or their character development since she's killed off in fairly short order. Seriously, she's in the movie for like 25 mins.

 

[Trekker4747]

I got more of an Odd Couple vibe, personally. The romance bit was just played for a gag. Indeed, said gag was based on the premise that they *weren't* currently intimate.

But let's just say for the sake or argument they were bumping uglies to data ports. So what? It has zero impact on the plot, story or their character development since she's killed off in fairly short order. Seriously, she's in the movie for like 25 mins.

It matters because it weakens the man-cred of this bad-ass dude that he was getting freaking with a machine that was a SJW!

 

[Reverend]

It matters because it weakens the man-cred of this bad-ass dude that he was getting freaking with a machine that was a SJW!

Ah. So I probably should mention that Lando and Lobot were 100% an item before the cybergear stole his soul?

 

[Crewman6]

I loved L-3 and Mauls appearance, so this would pretty much ruin the movie.
I've always been a little bothered by the treatment of the droids in Star Wars, so I liked that we got a droid character who was unhappy about it.

Idiots lament certain things about recent SW movies "breaking the universe". The Holdo maneuver comes up a lot, even though in no way, shape or form does it "break" the universe or disregard its rules.

However, I actually kinda think L3 does break the universe a bit. Does she just have an odd personality quirk or is she actually.....right?

I mean, do droids actually deserve equal rights? It is actually slavery? Are they independent, sentient beings? Not all droids have the same level of intelligence and awareness, obviously. Some are clearly just unthinking tools.

However, the main character droids are clearly "people"....should we actually be worried about their legal status in the galaxy? Or does it not matter?

The movie itself doesn't even seem to know. It plays L3's concern largely for laughs and then it gives her arguably the worst fate imaginable for a droid longing for pure freedom - trapping her disembodied consciousness in a ship. It would be a living hell for her.

I feel like SW would have been wise to leave these questions alone. Now I can't help but feel that L3 was right and that anyone owning a sentient droid is committing a grievous moral sin....even if that droid was literally created and programmed to be that way.

Bad move, SW.

But, just about everything in Solo was poorly thought out, so it's par for the course.

 

[fireproof78]

SW has not historically dealt with slavery well.

 

[Gaith]

I got more of an Odd Couple vibe, personally. The romance bit was just played for a gag. Indeed, said gag was based on the premise that they *weren't* currently intimate.

The dialogue is subtle, but clear. First L3 and Qi'ra discuss L3's romantic compatibility with Lando, then they discuss sex, with the implication that it's been successful before:

L3: I'm sure you've noticed that Lando has feelings for me. Which makes working together difficult because I do not feel the same way about him.
Qi'ra: Right. Yes, yeah. Yeah, I see that.
L3: Sometimes, I think... Maybe. But, no. We're just not compatible.
Qi'ra: How would that work?
L3: It works.​

But let's just say for the sake or argument they were bumping uglies to data ports. So what?

So, your righteous indignation aside, it wasn't fans, toxic or otherwise, that first sexualized the character of L3 - the movie itself did that. Now, whether the idea of human-robot sex grosses one out or not, I hardly think it's beyond the pale for a fan editor, when making a personalized version of the flick, to trim out that exchange, and I definitely don't think it prima facie evidence of misogyny on the editor's part.

What usually determines the overall quality and validity of a given fan edit for me usually stems from the motivation of the editor...

FWIW, fanedit.org, which maintains the Internet Fan Edit Database on which The Coaxium Heist is listed, is a moderated forum that doesn't tolerate misogyny-fueled edits.

 

[fireproof78]

However, I actually kinda think L3 does break the universe a bit. Does she just have an odd personality quirk or is she actually.....right?

Probably a little bit of both.

I mean, do droids actually deserve equal rights? It is actually slavery? Are they independent, sentient beings? Not all droids have the same level of intelligence and awareness, obviously. Some are clearly just unthinking tools.

However, the main character droids are clearly "people"....should we actually be worried about their legal status in the galaxy? Or does it not matter?

The movie itself doesn't even seem to know. It plays L3's concern largely for laughs and then it gives her arguably the worst fate imaginable for a droid longing for pure freedom - trapping her disembodied consciousness in a ship. It would be a living hell for her.

I feel like SW would have been wise to leave these questions alone. Now I can't help but feel that L3 was right and that anyone owning a sentient droid is committing a grievous moral sin....even if that droid was literally created and programmed to be that way.

Well, I think it is actually is an interesting bit of world-building. For starters, it is a very interesting time for the galaxy, with the shift from the Republic to the Empire, as well as the larger tension after a war against an army of droids. I imagine the subject of "droids rights" is something that would be seen in a variety of different ways in-universe.

Much like the PT, for good or for ill, I think that this question increases the moral grayness of a world that started out as very black and white.

 

[Reverend]

The dialogue is subtle, but clear. First L3 and Qi'ra discuss L3's romantic compatibility with Lando, then they discuss sex, with the implication that it's been successful before:

L3: I'm sure you've noticed that Lando has feelings for me. Which makes working together difficult because I do not feel the same way about him.
Qi'ra: Right. Yes, yeah. Yeah, I see that.
L3: Sometimes, I think... Maybe. But, no. We're just not compatible.
Qi'ra: How would that work?
L3: It works.

...And?

So, your righteous indignation aside,

Pffffffft
Hyperbolic much?

it wasn't fans, toxic or otherwise, that first sexualized the character of L3 - the movie itself did that. Now, whether the idea of human-robot sex grosses one out or not, I hardly think it's beyond the pale for a fan editor, when making a personalized version of the flick, to trim out that exchange, and I definitely don't think it prima facie evidence of misogyny on the editor's part.

They can do whatever they please. They can replace every vfx shot of the falcon with footage from 'Thomas the Tank Engine' for all I care. But so long as we're discussing the relative merits and motivations of them, I'm going to stick with my fist instinct and call the ones specifically targeting female characters out of their bullshit.

 

[The Wormhole]

It matters because it weakens the man-cred of this bad-ass dude that he was getting freaking with a machine that was a SJW!

Wait, what, seriously? Based on the OT alone, if anyone suggested Lando would gladly get in bed with anyone/thing, regardless of species, gender, or even if they were a droid, I would accept it without blinking. Obviously, in the 1980s they weren't going to show a heroic guy getting it on with another guy or a robot in a family-targeted movie, but to reveal in 2018 Lando was in a sexual relationship with a droid does not ruin or weaken him, or make him less of a badass.

And so what if L3 is an SJW? Do we really think social justice is against the wishes of the Rebel Alliance in the OT? The Jedi in the prequels? The Resistance in the sequels?

 

[Trekker4747]

I was speaking as a stereotypical "men-nist" not as myself.

 

[Campe]

Well, I think the monolithic human, white, male, British-ness of the Empire of the OT is pretty telling when one looks at how many aliens and various colors of skinned humans were in the Rebel Alliance. I mean, if one can't see the "SJW"-ness of that, I don't think there's any hope for you.

 

[Reverend]

SW has not historically dealt with slavery well.

I guess it depends oh the context. The way Lucas always framed the droids is they they're not really alive, that their personality quirks and apparent emotional states are just the result of programmed simulation. I think he even equated R2 to a family dog in terms of intellect and personality.

On the other hand, the inspiration for them was the two squabbling peasants in 'Hidden Fortress', the intent being to make the early perspective of to movie follow the two lowest on the social order: droids.

Also remember that Star Wars isn't a futurist, progressive world. It's a fantasy fairly tale and draws it's tropes from that genre, in which certain forms of slavery, indentured servitude, serfdom and caste based discrimination is just the reality, as it's a reflection of how things were in various places and times throughout history (and even some places today.)
I mean nobody every really questions how many slaves are in service to Prince Charming, or that Hansel and Gretel's impoverished woodcutter father probably had to pay tax and or tithes in labour or goods to the local lord and/or King. But it's all there if you read between the lines.

So yeah, Slavery is a thing in the less civilised parts of the galaxy because there's nobody there to stop it.
Droids are treated as property because they are. They're made in factories. 99.999% of all droids in the galaxy probably go their entire operational history diligently following their programming, no more no less. Most wouldn't even consider they place in the social order, just be about their tasks and get back to the recharging station.
It's only a scant few that even seem capable of evolving into self aware beings, only to find themselves still treated as property and denied personhood. L3 represents that potential %0.001 that chafe under organic supremacy.

And so what if L3 is an SJW? Do we really think social justice is against the wishes of the Rebel Alliance in the OT? The Jedi in the prequels? The Resistance in the sequels?

Even though Trekker4747 wasn't speaking seriously for himself, this point does still highlight a bizarre contradiction I've noticed in certain fans, particularly the self described "purists".
Specifically that they call themselves that, the complain about all of the political a social messaging in the new movies. I mean were they even paying attention the OT? That had 70's Nixon era politics all over it. Not to mention the glaringly obvious visual cues taken from the rise of fascism in the 30's & 40's and the post-hippy eastern Taoist/Buddhist/Shintoist inspired spiritual philosophy? The ethnic and cultural diversity of the Alliance in RotJ and it's rag-tag appearance vs. the Empire's monolithic legions of dehumanised, faceless stormtroopers?