Star Wars Rebels Season Three (spoilers)

[Ithekro]

Isn't that pretty much normally the case for any Imperial officer? Except that usually the death would come at the hands of their own superiors rather than the enemy.

This is one of those cases where Thrawn is different. He will generally not kill his underlings for failure if they are still useful, or show signs of understanding. He will however put officers in positions were they can either do the right thing (follow his orders) or allow the enemy to remove the officer for Thrawn, while also teaching Thrawn something about the enemy. While that isn't win-win for Thrawn, it does make morale with his troops higher than say those under Lord Vader.

 

[Reverend]

I'm not convinced that executing one's subordinates is actually typical for Imperial officers. I get the feeling that this is more a particular quirk of Vader and on occasion Tarkin. In the case of Vader I get the sense that he doesn't make a habit of it either, it's just that where we saw him the most in tESB he was on a single minded crusade to acquire Luke and didn't care about the consequences. Note that in ANH and RO he didn't kill Motti or Krenic and in the shooting script for RotJ he was shown to be at loggerheads with Jerjerrod. He still threw his weight around, but not recklessly so.

Regardless, it's worth keeping in mind that (for obvious reason) Thrawn is not a typical Imperial officer. Hey my just execute a subordinate on sight, but I doubt he'd do so lightly.

As for Konstantine; recall that while Thrawn outranks him, they're contemporaries and when he was introduced at the start of the season, Konstantine was surprised he'd been promoted. Clearly he doesn't think the Chiss deserves it and has designs to either undermine him or advance himself up and out from under Thrawn. So when he saw what he thought was his chance to show him up and claim the glory, he took it.

That may seem stupid, but that's just because it was. There's a reason most Imperials are petty and vainglorious: the system is intentionally set up to advance such people to the top and make sure they're too busy competing with each other to ever pose a serious threat to the Emperor. That applies to the upper echelons of all branches, from military, to the political and even the likes of the Inquisitorius.

 

[Tuskin38]

In the novels Thrawn (apparently) disliked using people as canon fodder, and frowned at any suggestion to do so.

Everyone had their place and use. People were not expendable.

 

[Christopher]

I just figure that when a ship is damaged, some thrusters go offline before others. Any subsequent movement is due to that.

But then the direction of drift would be random, not uniformly "down" relative to the ship (and camera) orientation. Not to mention that a ship in open space wouldn't need to be under constant thrust anyway. The ships under discussion here are usually portrayed as simply hovering in place.

I'm not convinced that executing one's subordinates is actually typical for Imperial officers. I get the feeling that this is more a particular quirk of Vader and on occasion Tarkin. In the case of Vader I get the sense that he doesn't make a habit of it either, it's just that where we saw him the most in tESB he was on a single minded crusade to acquire Luke and didn't care about the consequences. Note that in ANH and RO he didn't kill Motti or Krenic and in the shooting script for RotJ he was shown to be at loggerheads with Jerjerrod. He still threw his weight around, but not recklessly so.

Regardless, it's worth keeping in mind that (for obvious reason) Thrawn is not a typical Imperial officer. Hey my just execute a subordinate on sight, but I doubt he'd do so lightly.

Except we're talking about two different things here. What Vader did to excess was executing subordinates for failure. They did obey his orders, but they nonetheless failed to achieve his desired goals, and he petulantly killed them for it. But the sentence I was responding to was Ithekro's line "Thrawn basically put him in a position to follow orders or die." That's not about success vs. failure, it's about obedience vs. insubordination. Most Imperial officers wouldn't execute their subordinates for trying and failing to carry out their orders, but I doubt they'd be very forgiving toward officers who actually disobeyed direct orders, as Konstantine did. What he did went beyond incompetence to outright mutiny. As you say, he may not have accepted Thrawn as a superior, but the chain of command said otherwise. If he'd survived the battle, he would probably have been tried for mutiny, and I would expect the Empire to have a death sentence for that offense, especially if it led to the destruction of an entire capital ship or the escape of an enemy fleet.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I don't see that. Surely a more spread-out space battle would be easier to animate, because the ships would be far apart and not in the same shot at the same time. And you wouldn't need that many ships. If the Star Destroyers were able to bombard the surface from space, then their weapons have considerable range. You'd just need enough ships to have line of sight on the entire planet surface/orbital space -- theoretically, as few as four on the vertices of a tetrahedron around the planet could do it, though six or eight would be better -- and they could pick off any ship trying to get away in any direction.

Well, we could just assume this is exactly what was happening anyway and the closeness of the ships was purely artistic license. This is basically what we always do for Star Trek anyway, and it's EXPLICITLY what we have to do for The Expanse since the TV series is showing us battles that are described in the novels as taking place on a distance scale fifty times what we actually see. Just take the visuals as being barely accurate artistic renderings and posit huge invisible spaces between all the ships and fighters.

Actually there's one really compelling reason to do exactly this: the first ship that tries to jump to hyperspace runs into the interdiction field and drops back out again. The way they present it, the ship was already IN hyperspace for a few seconds before it was forced out again. That suggests it must have traveled some distance, but in the show it only looks like a few dozen kilometers. If you go by "artistic battlefield compression" theory, the ship would have traveled maybe half a light second through hyperspace and was brought to a stop directly into Thrawn's firing range.

Also explains why the Star Destoyers didn't blast the Rebel Fleet the moment they arrived. They weren't in firing range yet, they had setup a picket line two light seconds away from the planet and the interdictors had setup their field that extended from horizon to horizon.

In which case:

Alternatively, don't have the Interdictors be so short-range. Say their gravity wells are strong enough to prevent hyperspace entry within a million kilometers, or whatever measurement units they use. So the Rebel ships have to get that far away from the planet before they can jump. Same dynamic, but no need to have them fly directly toward the enemy for no reason.

"Objects in space are closer than they appear"

 

[Shawnster]

Regardless... back to the hyperspace jump issue. There are more hyperspace capable rebel ships than there are ISD's or the Interdictors. Every A Wing and Y Wing has hyperdrive, not to mention all the other ships. Enough ships could have split off in numerous directions that more than one would have gotten away. They didn't need to take out the interdictor in order to get Ezra or someone a chance to flee.

But it made the plot.

And its a conceit or a trope of Star Wars. All battles take place in close enough distances that it looks like the old naval battles of the 17 and 1800s.

It'd make more sense if hyperspace jumps were like Alderson points where there was only a specific location one could jump from. That's not the case, though. Anakin even jumped a ship from within the atmosphere in Clone Wars.

I still think in terms of the old X-Wing PC game. I'm still not used to accepting the A Wing as an older design. I also keep thinking how easy it would have been to take out both interdictors with all those Y Wings they had. Those are bombers. That is their mission profile - take out a capital ship. 6 torpedoes can take the shields out on a Star Destroyer. Those interdictors are not near as tough as an ISD.

 

[ALF]

Really enjoyed Zero Hour in my neck of the woods and need some more time to soak it up before reacting to the season as a whole. Anyone else rewatch it? I watched it 3 times so far. It's fairly fulfilling. It does make me wonder if it was originally written a series finale? I mean years ago when the project was still in development. Seems like they originally designed the show to go "3 or 4 seasons" so anything beyond that is breaking new ground. Also, I'm not sure it was by design that the series would end with the Battle of Scarif/Rogue One, I think that's a new strategy for the showrunners - and a brilliant one as it makes Rogue One a different kind of Rebels series finale.

Interesting that the base on Yavin IV and Dantooine exist at the same time instead of in a sequence. We're learning a lot about the full formation of the Rebellion, fulfilling the promise of the series. I figured we'd see Dantooine first get established and then move on to Yavin IV from there, of course we know both locations are secure in secrecy as the OT begins.

I'm not convinced that executing one's subordinates is actually typical for Imperial officers. I get the feeling that this is more a particular quirk of Vader and on occasion Tarkin. In the case of Vader I get the sense that he doesn't make a habit of it either, it's just that where we saw him the most in tESB he was on a single minded crusade to acquire Luke and didn't care about the consequences. Note that in ANH and RO he didn't kill Motti or Krenic and in the shooting script for RotJ he was shown to be at loggerheads with Jerjerrod. He still threw his weight around, but not recklessly so.
.

Ah, that's why we have some of these interesting scenes cut from Return of the Jedi:

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Jerjerrod (to Vader): You may not enter.
(VADER BEGINS TO FORCE CHOKE JERJERROD)
Jerjerrod (choking): It is the Emperor's command!
(VADER releases him)

It must be a real treat working for the Empire and find out you're doing a shift with Vader.

Certainly the SWR producers seem content to leave Vader out of the rest of the series, aka "his story is done", but I'm still thinking a conversation between he and Thrawn would be intriguing... I think we kind of have to see Vader again eventually for that. Lots of people seem to think Thrawn will be killed off in the series but I highly doubt it. Too much potential down the line for more stories with him. Disney seemed to go through a lot of trouble to bring Thrawn to life - why waste him on a pointless death? He's no Minister Tua, Cumberlayne Aresko or Myles Grint. Tarkin executed Cumberlayne Aresko and Myles Grint for incompetence. Seems like he and Vader are on the same page, at least.

TL;DR:
It would be intriguing to see Vader and Thrawn compare notes at some point.

 

[Christopher]

And its a conceit or a trope of Star Wars. All battles take place in close enough distances that it looks like the old naval battles of the 17 and 1800s.

Yup. Ultimately, SW's "space" is a fantasyland, and its battles are based on historical/cinematic naval and aerial battles rather than anything remotely resembling realistic space physics.

It'd make more sense if hyperspace jumps were like Alderson points where there was only a specific location one could jump from. That's not the case, though. Anakin even jumped a ship from within the atmosphere in Clone Wars.

And Han jumped the Falcon to hyperspace from inside a freighter in TFA.

 

[Stephen!]

Am I the only one that doesn't think the Bendu "died" and is now one with the Force? He wasn't visible the first time Kanaan encountered him, right?

This is an excerpt from an audio Interview that Coffee with Kenobi did with Freddie Prinze. It seems that there will be more of Bendu in season 4. http://vocaroo.com/i/s0S5hi2Dpz5I

 

[Tallguy]

Bendu! BENDU BENDU BENDU! *ahem* I mean... Cool, man.

The one step towards Rogue One that I have mixed feelings about is the hyperspace effect. The classic Star Wars effect is one that I never get tired of and Rebels has always done it perfectly. The slightly out of focus bokeh effect is neat and was totally appropriate for the look of RO.

I'm impressed (and distraught) that they have managed to make Kallus such a sympathetic character. I mean he started out as claiming responibility for wiping out the lasat and kicking his own men off of towers.

Having him transmit from Ezra's old hideout was a nice touch.

And RIP Sato.

 

[ALF]

Oh yeah, Bendu was totally playing with Thrawn. You can't kill the Bendu with blasters. He probably knows the trio from Mortis, etc. Wasn't a fan of TCW's Mortis storyline as a whole but I like Bendu and he seems to fit in with them.

You're right about Kallus, Tallguy. In the first season he is particularly bile and hateful towards Zeb and comes off as quite ruthless (murdering the stormtrooper in the first episode). I guess that lends more weight to his softening with Zeb and eventually defecting.

So now that we've seen someone defecting from the Imperials to the Rebels, doesn't that warrant seeing the opposite in the future, seeing a Rebel join the Empire? I know it's counter-intuitive but it could be an interesting story on this show. There hasn't been too much in the wake of treachery, save maybe Chopper's recent and very brief reprogramming incident.

 

[Tallguy]

Maybe somebody goes to the Empire after a run in with Saw.

I did get the idea that Bendu was legitimately hurt. But in no way dead. Maybe more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

 

[Ithekro]

One of the quirks of the Star Wars universe is that the better or quirkier the navigation computer the funkier the ship can enter or exit hyperspace. Most ships have regular computers, but shipd like the Millennium Falcon has a messy ultra fast computer allowing it to make the Kessel Run in 12 parcecs

 

[Basill]

I did get the idea that Bendu was legitimately hurt. But in no way dead. Maybe more powerful than you can possibly imagine.

Yeah, I sensed he was somehow performing at less than optimal, but thinking that maybe it was just his "crude matter" that took the brunt of the assault. He's always been a smoke and mirrors kind of dude; I can easily envision him being a force-manipulating-shape-shifter that makes use of the material world around him. Thrawn's shift of focus to the center of the storm as the primary target of his troops' weaponry may have resulted in stuff being a little less "malleable" (or maybe too much so).

 

[B.J.]

The other possibility is that the Empire started to strengthen their AT-AT's legs because of these repeated slicings by Kanan and Ezra. Maybe even Luke, as the walkers on Hoth are of a different variant than the ones we see in Rebels. Possibly an upgraded model (it is five years after this episode that Hoth happens) or those were the cold weather variant, to go with their Snow Troopers.

Until shown otherwise, it's been in my head-canon that the AT-ATs on Rebels are an older less armored model. Especially considering of all the previously existing vehicles, the AT-AT seems the furthest from its original appearance.

 

[Tallguy]

Do we have more variations of walkers now than TIE fighters?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Do we have more variations of walkers now than TIE fighters?

Wow, I'd be surprised if we did. I'm no walker expert, but here are the canonical TIE variations of the OT era that I'm aware of, off the top of my head.

regular TIE Fighter
Vader's TIE Advanced
TIE Bomber
TIE Interceptor
Inquisitor's TIE Advanced
TIE Defender
TIE Striker
TIE Reaper

 

[fireproof78]

Do we have more variations of walkers now than TIE fighters?

I highly doubt it. Though, that might change with Episode 8.

 

[137th Gebirg]

SWR does have a tendency to stylize and distort its vehicles (and people) as a part of its artistic style, so they may look different from how they appeared on the big screen, even though they may be the exact same class of vehicle - the Star Destroyers are a good example of this. Their necks are way too tall and thin. Hell, the SD's used in the Family Guy Star Wars specials were more accurate and proportionate to the studio filming miniatures than the SWR ones were!

That being said, both the AT-AT's and AT-ST's we've seen lumbering around Lothal and other locales do seem different enough to be more than just artistic license, particularly in the "cockpit" area, and according to the Wookiepedia, there are a lot of variants on the AT design. I don't have the cycles at present to look through them all, but there are definitely more than a handful. And, yes, there are still more TIE variants than there are AT variants (a metric ass-ton, actually).

 

[B.J.]

The biped walker in Rebels is an AT-DP, not an AT-ST. So not a variant or artistic license there. But yeah, there's still the question with the AT-ATs and the Star Destroyers.