Star Wars Rebels Season Three (spoilers)

[kirk55555]

Hondo is the second best original character the animated series have introduced, along with Ahsoka.
Oh, and I absolutely love the droids, they've been some of my favorite characters in all of the movies and series. That made it really frustrating that the Meebur Gascon/Droid episodes of TCW were so bad, because usually I love that kind of thing.

I like R2 and C-3P0 in the movies, and BB-8 in Episode VII. I just don't like the droids in animation, because I don't like droid antics that go so over the top and for so long (like in Attack of the Clones). Give me droids in moderation, and doing things that aren't so over the top. The exception to this is Chopper, who I do hate because he has legitimately tried to kill people (the good guys, not the bad guys) and is a gigantic, unlikable a-hole. But I like the main droids well enough, I just don't want to watch 22 minutes of them doing goofy, ridiculous things.

As for Hondo, I've never liked him. He should have been killed during one of TCW episodes, but keeps surviving because the writers like him. Honestly, of all the TCW and Rebels chararacters, he's the one I least understand the popularity of. I can honestly think of reasons people would like Jar Jar easier then I can come up with reasons people could like Hondo. That said, it doesn't bother me that much, not enough to argue about him or anything. I think saying I "hate" him is probably too strong a word. Sometimes I'm a bit too free when it comes to using the "H" word. I don't really hate Hondo, he doesn't offend me with his existence or anything. I just don't find him entertaining.

 

[Tallguy]

I loved Hondo on Clone Wars. But the fact that he is a slightly different character affected by wildly different circumstances in Rebels makes me adore him so much more now.

Jim Cummings rules. And yes, he's SO doing Montalban,

Did we ever find out what happened to Cad Bane?

 

[Christopher]

Well they're space pirates and pirates with Cockney accents are a time honoured cliche.

If anything, the stereotypical pirate accent is not unlike the London accent of the Elizabethan era (which is a lot morrrre rhotic than a moderrrn Cockney accent, arrrr, matey). Yes, Shakespeare basically talked like a pirate.

And there were plenty of Spanish pirates too, so a whole crew of Weequay talking like Ricardo Montalban would've been equally appropriate (although his accent was Mexican).

On the other hand I wouldn't be shocked if it turned out he was just some travelling performer/con-artist that just stumbled into pirating. Perhaps literally tripping and accidentally killing some pirate boss, then having to act the part of a rival just to stay alive...at least at first. Somewhere between Jack Sparrow and Long John Silver.

Going by just the Rebels version of Hondo, I can see that, but the version I've been watching in TCW's early seasons is more serious and menacing, albeit with a sense of humor. He's also defined by a skewed sense of honor and dignity. So I'd say he started out as a legitimate pirate leader, but after the rise of the Empire he fell on hard times and became a shadow of his former self, a washed-up grifter pulling one clumsy con after another in a desperate attempt to reclaim his past glory.

Wouldn't be much of a confrontation. Just a lot of fast talking followed by chocking sounds. Then a thud.

I didn't mean a confrontation in the sense of a fight. There could be a situation where Hondo came to Vader with some information or to make a deal, or where Vader called on his services for some disreputable task. We know that Vader isn't above hiring bounty hunters, so he wouldn't be above working with a pirate-turned-con artist. Or maybe Vader would capture Hondo and interrogate him for information about the Rebels (although Hondo would probably sell Ezra out in two seconds, admittedly). The fact that Vader knew they had a history, while Hondo presumably didn't, could add some interesting texture to that interaction.

 

[Reverend]

I'm not trying to reason with him, just counter him. He talked about hating the droids and Hondo, so that just made me want to say how much I like them.

I understand the impulse, but from previous experience, what do you feel this will achieve?

I loved Hondo on Clone Wars. But the fact that he is a slightly different character affected by wildly different circumstances in Rebels makes me adore him so much more now.

I think that's kind of the point. Take away all his thugs, weapons and resources and he's little more than a pathetic, if somewhat endearing con-artist. I like that they progressed his character in a way that made sense in a post-RotS galaxy and didn't just keep repeating the same material.

Did we ever find out what happened to Cad Bane?

Unless you count Sabine's graffiti or that unproduced 'The Searchers' pastiche episode with Boba Fett, the last we saw of Cad Bane he was being carted of by Senate Guard clone troopers on Naboo. One assumes he escaped again at some point.

Going by just the Rebels version of Hondo, I can see that, but the version I've been watching in TCW's early seasons is more serious and menacing, albeit with a sense of humor. He's also defined by a skewed sense of honor and dignity. So I'd say he started out as a legitimate pirate leader, but after the rise of the Empire he fell on hard times and became a shadow of his former self, a washed-up grifter pulling one clumsy con after another in a desperate attempt to reclaim his past glory.

That's certainly the simplest interpretation. But there's something about the idea that he faked it so long that he actually got so good at it stopped being an act for him that just appeals to me. In that line of thinking his appearances in 'Rebels' could be seen less as a fall from grace as a reversion to type.
I suppose feel like if that "charming yet legitimately menacing" version of him was his true self that he wouldn't cope with the indignity of his downfall so cheerfully. Such characters tend to loose their charming affectation when circumstances conspire against them, not rely on it more.

Not that it need be a mutually exclusive situation, which is why I referenced Long John Silver who while certainly a legitimately dangerous person, was also pragmatic about his status and not entirely heartless towards Jim and had his own internal sense of honour. (yes, that does make Ezra Jim Hawkins in this analogy, make of that what you will.)

 

[Ithekro]

I didn't mean a confrontation in the sense of a fight. There could be a situation where Hondo came to Vader with some information or to make a deal, or where Vader called on his services for some disreputable task. We know that Vader isn't above hiring bounty hunters, so he wouldn't be above working with a pirate-turned-con artist. Or maybe Vader would capture Hondo and interrogate him for information about the Rebels (although Hondo would probably sell Ezra out in two seconds, admittedly). The fact that Vader knew they had a history, while Hondo presumably didn't, could add some interesting texture to that interaction.

I have this dumb image of Vader walking away then saying some thing corny like: "Kenobi was never fond of you". Then walking off with Hondo a mix of confusion and sadness.

 

[Tuskin38]

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[Reverend]

I have to admit, although I knew the Ghost crew starting to break up was inevitable sooner or later, I didn't think it'd start happening quite this soon.

ETA
A pretty good episode overall, though after 'Trials of the Darksaber' the family stuff fell a little flat. This is not the first time I've said as much about a Rebels episode, but it didn't help that the episode felt a little rushed in terms of plot, like they really needed to tell this story over two episodes.

The compressed storytelling didn't give as much time as one would have preferred to get to know Sabine's family and it really undermined the tension. Also made the fight with Gar seem a little perfunctory, especially coming off the back of the last episode's climactic duel.

 

[KennyB]

I have to admit, although I knew the Ghost crew starting to break up was inevitable sooner or later, I didn't think it'd start happening quite this soon.

I was surprised at that as well....I like the fact that they zig sometimes when I expect a zag!

 

[Reverend]

You know it just now occurred to be that if Ursa Wren is a Countess, then that means Sabine is by rights a Lady. (At least she would be addressed as such over here. I'm honestly not sure how that works in other European countries that still has a peerage system.)
Something about that just tickles me.

Another thing occurs to me: if Mandalore is effectively a kingdom (figuratively speaking) of about a thousand systems within the Empire and this is the beginning of them breaking away and declaring independence, then in the post-RotJ period wouldn't that make them more or less analogous to what the Hapes were in the EU? I think I like that idea a lot better than space vikings!

 

[Christopher]

You know it just now occurred to be that if Ursa Wren is a Countess, then that means Sabine is by rights a Lady. (At least she would be addressed as such over here. I'm honestly not sure how that works in other European countries that still has a peerage system.)

Why would that be? At least according to Wikipedia, Duchess is a couple of ranks above Countess, and "Lady" is a generic address used for several different ranks of nobility.

In any case, sci-fi rank systems don't necessarily correlate to real ones -- as, for instance, in the rather odd Battlestar Galactica rank system where a commander is above a colonel, captain, lieutenant, etc. Heck, the Rebel Alliance seems to hand out generalships to anyone who's done them a favor. (Seriously, what the hell did Han Solo do to warrant a promotion to general for the Battle of Endor? Or had all their actual generals been killed off by that point?)

 

[Hartzilla2007]

(Seriously, what the hell did Han Solo do to warrant a promotion to general for the Battle of Endor? Or had all their actual generals been killed off by that point?)

Apparently being willing to lead the ground assault on the shield generator.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

(Seriously, what the hell did Han Solo do to warrant a promotion to general for the Battle of Endor? Or had all their actual generals been killed off by that point?)

Besides rescuing Princess Leia from the Death Star, bringing the Death Star plans to Yavin, being instrumental in the destruction of the Death Star, and saving Luke on Hoth by going out into the freezing cold when no one else would, there was also three years of him fighting for the Rebellion between A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back, for which General Rieekan said "You're a good fighter, Solo, I hate to lose you."

Promotions were being handed out in preparation for the assault on Endor rather then earlier because it was presumably the largest gathering of Rebel forces that had ever occurred up to that point, and there were multiple objectives, so they needed more commanders. Also, as you say, there had probably been a great deal of attrition in the ranks as the various Rebel cells had been taken out by the Empire.

 

[Christopher]

Besides rescuing Princess Leia from the Death Star, bringing the Death Star plans to Yavin, being instrumental in the destruction of the Death Star, and saving Luke on Hoth by going out into the freezing cold when no one else would, there was also three years of him fighting for the Rebellion between A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back, for which General Rieekan said "You're a good fighter, Solo, I hate to lose you."

Yeah, but military rank isn't just a pat on the head for a few good deeds. You don't put some freelancing smuggler who's helped out from time to time in command of more seasoned personnel as his first formal military position. Making him a lower-ranked member of General Leia's squad would've made more sense. I mean, Luke, Leia, and Han were all on the Endor team -- why the hell do you need three generals for one mission? And since when are generals on the front lines anyway?

Making Lando a general makes even less sense, though, since he'd only been with the Rebellion for six months at that point and he'd presumably spent most of it searching for Han. It was pretty obvious in ROTJ that generalship was a function of being a lead character in the script, whether it made sense in-universe or not.

 

[Reverend]

Why would that be? At least according to Wikipedia, Duchess is a couple of ranks above Countess, and "Lady" is a generic address used for several different ranks of nobility.

Thanks mate, but I don't need wikipedia to tell me how my own country's peerage system works. Just trust me when I tell you the daughter of a Countess is addressed as a Lady.

Making Lando a general makes even less sense, though, since he'd only been with the Rebellion for six months at that point and he'd presumably spent most of it searching for Han. It was pretty obvious in ROTJ that generalship was a function of being a lead character in the script, whether it made sense in-universe or not.

When you're fighting an insurgency you don't get to be picky. There was a wider war going on in the galaxy by the time of Endor and it stands to reason the Alliance was stretched very thin. Anyone with command experience and a proven track record would be wasted as anything less than a General.

 

[Christopher]

Thanks mate, but I don't need wikipedia to tell me how my own country's peerage system works. Just trust me when I tell you the daughter of a Countess is addressed as a Lady.

Oh, I see. You said Sabine. I just watched the Clone Wars Mandalore trilogy yesterday, so I misread it as a reference to Duchess Satine. Sorry about that.

When you're fighting an insurgency you don't get to be picky. There was a wider war going on in the galaxy by the time of Endor and it stands to reason the Alliance was stretched very thin. Anyone with command experience and a proven track record would be wasted as anything less than a General.

Hardly. There are plenty of ranks that all play important roles in the hierarchy. Making everyone the same rank -- and promoting less experienced personnel over more experienced ones -- is a recipe for chaos. And again, Leia was already a general, and she and Han were on the same mission. Why did he need to be a general too? Unless it was just that the filmmakers in 1983 couldn't tolerate the idea of a man being subordinate in military rank to a woman.

 

[Ithekro]

To be fair, Leia and Luke volunteers to be part of the command crew for the shuttle. She didn't even know he'd taken the mission, possibly not even heard of his promotion until General Madine mentioned it. She even asked Han who they might have gotten to pull off such a mission as taking out the shield generator on a heavily defended planet using a stolen Imperial shuttle. I mean, they don't have anyone nearly as crazy determined as Jyn Erso anymore...right?

 

[Reverend]

Hardly. There are plenty of ranks that all play important roles in the hierarchy. Making everyone the same rank -- and promoting less experienced personnel over more experienced ones -- is a recipe for chaos. And again, Leia was already a general, and she and Han were on the same mission. Why did he need to be a general too? Unless it was just that the filmmakers in 1983 couldn't tolerate the idea of a man being subordinate in military rank to a woman.

Two people hardly constitutes "everyone".
Again, there's a much bigger war going on out there so they'll have no shortage of volunteers to be soldiers or even pilots. The ones that survive more then five minutes may even get promotions to squad leaders, Captains or even Commanders. People with long experience are more valuable and are needed more and more to manage things at the strategic level as more worlds join them, as territory gets occupied, worlds liberated and mass migrations of refugees increase.

Lando isn't just some smuggler, he's the former Baron of Cloud City, with a population in the millions. Someone used to leadership, managing logistics on a large scale and with the wherewithal to do so for years without drawing attention from the Empire or the Mining Guild. That's valuable experience in and of itself and whatever he did at Taanab clearly convinced Alliance High Command he also has what it takes to lead people into combat.
It paid off too. Remember he was the one that recommended to a reluctant Ackbar to engage the Imperial fleet at close range. That move bought the ground team the time they needed and even allowed them to overwhelm and eliminate the Executor.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I'd expect "little maneuver" to be an understatement.

 

[Reverend]

I'd expect "little maneuver" to be an understatement.

And I'm sure Han said a lot more than "he's a fair pilot".

 

[KennyB]

Yeah, but military rank isn't just a pat on the head for a few good deeds. You don't put some freelancing smuggler who's helped out from time to time in command of more seasoned personnel as his first formal military position.

That's when I remind myself it is make believe.............