Star Wars Rebels Season Three (spoilers)

[Reverend]

Preview shows that the Empire is now using Bike Scout Troopers. I guess Ezra will need to add one to his helmet collection.

Really old comics EU has Biggs and Hobbie jump ship together after they left the Academy. What is unclear is if Biggs jumped ship after he talked to Luke (in filmed scene) or if he half lied and had already done so by that point.

IIRC his dialogue states he just got his first commission and a group of others were planning to jump ship at the first opportunity. He mostly came back to say goodbye to his friends and family in case he never come back (which of course, he does not.)

Those friends could in theory have been part of the Yavin mission too, though since only Luke, Wedge and that one Y-Wing pilot made it back it's a little academic at this point.

On the other hand, if Rebels does follow up on Maul searching for Kenobi, we could still have an encounter with a Biggs Darklighter of Tatooine.

Not impossible, but that might seem a little too cute.

There was something ominous mentioned in the Rebels Recon about the Empire taking all these really bright young prodigy type students into the military (like Sabine, who said she was at the Academy for years) and that that will come out later in the season. Remember that Sabine is only a year or two older than Ezra and had a bounty hunter career of sorts after she left the Academy. Not only that, but she had some kind of serious training by her family and clan before that. She started really young. Since we know there is more Madalorian material coming this season via the trailers and this other knowledge (as well as it suggested that Katee Sackhoff will be back at Bo-Katan) means we should be getting a bunch of backstory and modern Madalorian materials later this season.

Aside from the stuff with Maul, this is what I'm most looking forward to this season. Right from the off I found Sabine to be a way more interesting character than Ezra and if they're doing what I think they're doing this could get *very* interesting.

As for what the Empire is up to with these prodigy kids: probably nothing as simple as elite troops. Clone templates perhaps? The first steps towards the type of indoctrinated troop and pilot training programs the First Order will adopt? Emperor's Hands would be a cool twist...I mean they don't *need* to be force users to be expert infiltrators, spies and assassins, no?

I don't watch Rebels, and haven't since the space whales. But, I'm going to keep up with what they're doing, because I love the SW universe and want to know what characters I like that the show is going to ruin. I have to keep up with the absolute worst part of the franchise, because it can effect the good parts of the SW Universe. So, yeah, while I won't be commenting on episodes when there is big news about formerly good SW characters I will probably comment on it. So, I won't be "buggering off". I'll stop posting about things the show does when it ends.

Please yourself sunshine, just note that the opinion of a person who doesn't even watch the show is less that useless here. So have fun registering your ill informed disgust to your own little echo chamber in the future.

 

[Ithekro]

The old comics always make it seem like Biggs was part of the Rebellion for months, if not longer (time and wars always are more condensed that they seem). With Biggs being a large rebel hero before Yavin with a nice core of skilled pilots. Hobbie missing the show because of illness. Biggs, Porkins, and Wedge seemed like their hot shot pilots in the old comic (though I think most of those backstory comics were from Wedge's memories and tales of his old wingmates). Wedge could have been talking them up, either for his new Rogue Squadron pilots, or to talk up Biggs for Luke. Though if we go by Luke, Biggs was a hot shot pilot, as good or better than Luke himself, though Biggs called Luke the best bush pilot in the Outer Rim Territories. Still, it was Wedge who saved Luke's butt at Yavin the first time. Head to head no less.

We got so little of Wedge on the films, but we got enough to consider him interesting. First the head to head save and being the survivor at Yavin. Than the pilot that takes down an Imperial walker at Hoth (because Luke's gunner was killed), and then finally running the Death Star II with Lando, and surviving that one too. Wedge was interesting...so there are a bunch of novels and comics with him in it. Just they did get sort of messy over time.

Still the designated survivor lives last I checked.

 

[Reverend]

My read on it wasn't so much that Biggs was a better pilot so as Luke just idolised him as a cool older brother figure.
It's quite interesting to watch the Toche Station deleted scene then the whole final act of the movie and notice that in the latter scenes, Biggs seems out of his depth a lot of the time with Luke being the natural leader. Presumably this was designed to demonstrate his character growth through the film from awkward angsty teen to Rebel hero. Cutting the initial scene does hamper this somewhat, but it's still basically intact even without such a deliberately stark contrast. I mean one could argue it's like watching that "Chester And Spike" looney tune played out in live action.

In recent years it's surprised me how well that last sequence holds up and just how well plotted out it all is. There's a lot more in the interplay they you can easily miss but is much clearer if you read the script's stage directions. For example, the "stay on target" scene is meant to convey that Gold 5 is actually the veteran flyer while Gold Leader is the greenhorn officer. A bit odd to see that in pilots as it's usually an army/navy, officer/non-com trope.
Apparently Lucas wasn't aware that when it comes to pilots, experience generally dictates seniority.

And yes, last I checked, Wedge is indeed still kicking in the Aftermath novels and busy playing surrogate father to a very young Snap Wexley. I hope they can come up with a substantial enough role for him in VIII or IX for it to be worth Denis Lawson's time to reprise the role. I know he's not really interested in just making a cameo appearance.

 

[kirk55555]

Please yourself sunshine, just note that the opinion of a person who doesn't even watch the show is less that useless here. So have fun registering your ill informed disgust to your own little echo chamber in the future.

Don't need to see the show to have an opinion on the stuff its doing. By that logic, to use another franchise as an example, I can't say Twilight sucks without watching the movie.

Also, my disgust is very well informed. Over twenty episodes of garbage gave me a very well informed sense of disgust when it comes to Rebels.

 

[Xerxes82]

Don't need to see the show to have an opinion on the stuff its doing. By that logic, to use another franchise as an example, I can't say Twilight sucks without watching the movie.

Yes, you do. And no, you can't. You can say that Twilight doesn't SOUND LIKE something you'd enjoy. You can even say you expect that it sucks. But since you've never actually seen it yourself, you can't say it sucks. Not if you want anyone to take your opinion seriously as a matter of discussion. Facts matter. Experience matters. You have neither, since you've chosen to take everything out of context and read, what, summaries? Or this discussion? Rather than actually engaging the material fairly. That completely, and unambiguously disqualifies you from having a valid opinion about the material. That just gives you an opinion about YOUR IMPRESSION OF WHAT THE MATERIAL IS, which is entirely in your head. None of the rest of us can engage you on your fantasy life.

Oh, wait, there's an ignore feature. I forgot.

 

[Reverend]

Oh, wait, there's an ignore feature. I forgot.

Waaaay ahead of you.

 

[The Wormhole]

I hope they can come up with a substantial enough role for him in VIII or IX for it to be worth Denis Lawson's time to reprise the role. I know he's not really interested in just making a cameo appearance.

I thought he wasn't interested in returning to Star Wars in general? I seem to remember an interview where Star Wars was brought up and he goes off "you want to talk about my Star Wars experience? I spent hours on end sitting in a cardboard box talking to myself. That's my Star Wars experience."

 

[fireproof78]

Yes, you do. And no, you can't. You can say that Twilight doesn't SOUND LIKE something you'd enjoy. You can even say you expect that it sucks. But since you've never actually seen it yourself, you can't say it sucks. Not if you want anyone to take your opinion seriously as a matter of discussion. Facts matter. Experience matters. You have neither, since you've chosen to take everything out of context and read, what, summaries? Or this discussion? Rather than actually engaging the material fairly. That completely, and unambiguously disqualifies you from having a valid opinion about the material. That just gives you an opinion about YOUR IMPRESSION OF WHAT THE MATERIAL IS, which is entirely in your head. None of the rest of us can engage you on your fantasy life.
.

I agree with this. I thought that Clone Wars was stupid and trite in terms of how it dealt with the canon material and then I actually watched it and listened to what the producers were trying to do and I developed a different respect for the material.

Even listening to GL over the years has soften my opinion the PT and what he was trying to do. So, while I may not like what the PT did, I can still respect the work and see what was trying to be done.

Similarly, I don't necessarily like Clone Wars and Rebels is still something that I'm getting in to, but it has my interest.

No one has to like everything that has the Star Wars name on it, but I have yet to hear a cogent argument against Rebels, so, I'm back to

 

[Reverend]

I thought he wasn't interested in returning to Star Wars in general? I seem to remember an interview where Star Wars was brought up and he goes off "you want to talk about my Star Wars experience? I spent hours on end sitting in a cardboard box talking to myself. That's my Star Wars experience."

I've read that statement too and I also recall one from around the time TFA was in production where he was asked if he'd be willing to reprise his role in the new film and his response was something along the lines of "not if it means just standing around in a corner for a few days for the sake of a cameo" but that he would if they actually had something of substance for him to do, acting wise. The sentiment behind these two statements seem consistent enough to me. He's still a working actor and if they had a good role for him I'm sure he'd be on board, but he doesn't have enough affection for the whole thing to make it a rewarding experience just to stand around like a piece of scenery.

I'm not sure of the voracity of this next bit, but I also recall some mention somewhere that he was approached and turned it down pretty much for the above reason. Having seen the finished film, I think one might hazard a guess that the idea would have been to put him into the control room with Leia and Ackbar, possibly (this is just me wildly guessing) in the role ultimatle filled by Statura.

As a fan it's easy to feel disappointed with this, but one has to respect his feelings in the matter and I don't think he's ever been anything but open and frank towards the fanbase. The way I see it, I'd much rather see an engaged Denis Lawson in a substantial role as Wedge, rather than a disinterested Denis Lawson as a glorified extra.

 

[Ithekro]

Head of the Starfighter Corps, giving out orders, or head of an Academy training he next gen pilots would make sense, but would probably not fit into the films. Assuming Wedge didn't just retire and go back to freighters after his 30 years of service, or go have a family.

 

[Reverend]

Head of the Starfighter Corps, giving out orders, or head of an Academy training he next gen pilots would make sense, but would probably not fit into the films. Assuming Wedge didn't just retire and go back to freighters after his 30 years of service, or go have a family.

I like to imagine that he's still a high ranking Republic officer and currently General Leia's main inside source/recruiter, as opposed to Ackbar who probably came out or retirement on Mon Cala.

 

[Ithekro]

Well he is a hero of at least three major battles of the Rebellion era. While he didn't blow up the first Death Star, he survived it. He took out walkers on Hoth, and probably has a shared kill of the Death Star II on his list. Plus other things he likely did during his seven or so years working with the Rebellion before it became the New Republic. Given what we see in this episode, he's probably one of the best of the best to be assigned to this Academy.

One thing that is interesting, Sabine mentions Imperial protocols when they are ordered to fire on a surrendering, unarmed transport. It seems the Empire is suppose to take prisoners and not shoot such targets, but have recently changed that. Perhaps in response to the Rebellion using I suppose unethical tactics like surrendering and attacking, or suicide bombing maybe? We know the Ghost crew is one of the more idealistic rebel groups from Tarkin. Others are more vicious.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

While he didn't blow up the first Death Star, he survived it.

Wedge also probably saved Luke's life, by destroying the TIE Fighter that damaged Luke's X-wing.

 

[Reverend]

It's actually curious in retrospect how quickly Luke fell into a leadership role in that battle and how readily Wedge and Biggs became followers.
Biggs because as I mentioned previously, Luke had been the one that looked up to him and speaks to his character growth.

Knowing what we now know about Wedge though makes it all the more curious for different reasons. He's a former Imperial top gun cadet with what we can assume is three or four years experience flying for the rebellion. I wonder if there's something in his character that makes him either unwilling to lead, or more comfortable as a follower. At least until after Hoth. There may be an as yet untold story there.

 

[Ithekro]

Perhaps there is something to the Jedi that makes people want to follow them, or make people assume they should be followed. It was Red Leader that assigned Biggs and Wedge to Luke, though If the Rebel units follow the "standard" flight and squadron patterns, Red Five would default be the lead fighter of the second flight of three in Red Squadron. Wedge being Rogue Two at Hoth would make him normally Luke's wingman at that time, though Rogue Three seems to have be operating as that for at least part of the battle.

If we take things like the Clone Wars and the PT into account in universe, Luke Skywalker is presented as the student of Obi-wan Kenobi, with Han Solo (known skeptic) as chief witness. I don't know if Chewbacca has any sort of swing with anyone even if he seems to have been a higher up Wookiee during the Clone Wars and a known to the Jedi. But if Luke is basically presented as a Jedi Padawan and traditionally those a Commanders in the old Army of the Republic. So maybe they just followed tradition, and lucked out.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I think it's interesting that the way the trench run strategy is set up, arguably the least able pilot should take point in the trench, because the plan was for the computer to handle all the targeting; all the point man has to do is confirm the order to fire when the computer indicates the optimal firing time. It's the wingmen flying cover who have the harder job, and not simply because, having no aft-facing guns, the X-wing wasn't designed for that sort of mission. They had to actually make decisions, limited though they were, with "loose" flying to do everything they could to keep from getting targeted. Incidentally, that's the nature of the argument going on in Gold Squadron, with "We're too close" and "Stay on target": the Y-wings were all bunched up together. In the two Red Squadron runs, the wingmen stayed back far enough to cover the point man, as Biggs put it. That kept the TIE Fighters back and discouraged them from slipping in front of the wingmen to target the point man directly, without first killing off both wingmen. That was also true in Red Leader's run; unfortunately, the Special Edition VFX changed how that team descended into the trench, with all three descending together. In the original theatrical release, the two wingmen, including Red Ten, are shown descending first just with each other, and then Red Leader is shown descending by himself (the film doesn't outright tell you whose X-wings are whose, but there's no other reasonable way to figure it out), which makes it clear (or, at least, clearer) that Biggs was actually following the pattern of the first Red team, who in turn were applying the correction to how Gold Squadron deployed themselves that they reported over the comm.

I'm sure Red Leader wasn't handing off leadership of the trench run following his to someone who he thought was incapable of filling a leadership role, but it actually does make sense for the greenest pilot to take point under those conditions, as long as he's competent, which I believe that Red Leader thought Luke was. Plus, with the deleted scene about Red Leader having known Luke's father in context, and after seeing what Luke could do, it further creates the impression that Red Leader saw Luke living up to his father's abilities, at least well enough to do what needed to be done. Or, maybe he was being guided by the Force somewhat, too, and just went with his instincts.

Also, Luke saved Biggs too from a TIE Fighter. The TIEs were problems for everybody and Luke needing saving didn't, in and of itself, make Luke less skilled than Biggs.

If we take things like the Clone Wars and the PT into account in universe, Luke Skywalker is presented as the student of Obi-wan Kenobi, with Han Solo (known skeptic) as chief witness. I don't know if Chewbacca has any sort of swing with anyone even if he seems to have been a higher up Wookiee during the Clone Wars and a known to the Jedi. But if Luke is basically presented as a Jedi Padawan and traditionally those a Commanders in the old Army of the Republic. So maybe they just followed tradition, and lucked out.

Ooo, I like that!

 

[SPCTRE]

my disgust is very well informed.

so you are a True Fan after all

I actually think that quote would make a good tagline for the TBBS

 

[Reverend]

This has also got me wondering about Chewie's role in the movie in retrospect. Knowing that he was a clone wars veteran, that he knew both Yoda and Ahsoka and that Kenobi walked straight up to him in that cantina.

Could be the force at work...but what if Chewie was somehow already involved with the rebellion without Han being aware? Not an agent or informant, but an asset. A courier for the occasional discrete package like a dead-drop message.
Using the holonet would of course be too dangerous and any transmission may be intercepted so an old fashioned dead drop would have been safest.
Maybe he was Kenobi's point of contact for communicating with Bail?

Perhaps there is something to the Jedi that makes people want to follow them, or make people assume they should be followed. It was Red Leader that assigned Biggs and Wedge to Luke, though If the Rebel units follow the "standard" flight and squadron patterns, Red Five would default be the lead fighter of the second flight of three in Red Squadron. Wedge being Rogue Two at Hoth would make him normally Luke's wingman at that time, though Rogue Three seems to have be operating as that for at least part of the battle.

If we take things like the Clone Wars and the PT into account in universe, Luke Skywalker is presented as the student of Obi-wan Kenobi, with Han Solo (known skeptic) as chief witness. I don't know if Chewbacca has any sort of swing with anyone even if he seems to have been a higher up Wookiee during the Clone Wars and a known to the Jedi. But if Luke is basically presented as a Jedi Padawan and traditionally those a Commanders in the old Army of the Republic. So maybe they just followed tradition, and lucked out.

At that particular point in time I don't think anyone besides Han & Chewie was even aware Luke even owed a lightsaber, let alone intended to train as a Jedi and for his part Han probably never thought it was terribly relevant even if he had a mind to vouch for Luke. Not that he would because 1) what would his word be worth to this load of idealistic do-gooders ? 2) He'd rather Luke sign on with him.
Chewie may have said something, but I get a sense that he wouldn't have thought it his place to interfere.

He was just a kid from some backwater who claimed he was a fair pilot. The reasons they gave him a shot were probably 1) He was travelling with General Kenobi 2) had been instrumental in rescuing Princess Leia and 3) they were facing annihilation and really had nothing to loose by giving him a shot.

That said, the Skywalker name may have made a few people's ear prick up. The deleted line from Red Leader about having flown with (or seen?) Anakin during the Clone Wars may still have been basically true. If not for Red Leader himself but the likes of Dodonna and a few other veterans may have guessed the connection, given his company and that metal cylinder on his belt.

What interests me though right now is that at a certain point in the battle, Wedge began to defer to Luke a "boss". I think that has less to do with Luke and more to do with Wedge. He came across as the eager follower, almost as if he's relived someone sounds like they know what they're doing.

 

[JD]

Oh, I like that Chewie idea.
Has Wedge popped up in any of the books or comics yet? There's always the chance he played a part in some big events between the movies that also helped to cement his importance in the Rebellion.

 

[Reverend]

Oh, I like that Chewie idea.
Has Wedge popped up in any of the books or comics yet? There's always the chance he played a part in some big events between the movies that also helped to cement his importance in the Rebellion.

He's in the Aftermath books and I think he has at least one scene in 'Lost Stars', but I'm pretty sure that's not between the movies so much as just off camera during one of the movies.